Ethanol in gasoline

[gto78]

From my experience with the change to E10 fuels I've had a pretty big drop in mpg on my Altima and Explorer. The Altima is pretty new, only 12K miles on it, 4 cylinder, and got 34 mpg as the window sticker advertised. Then 10% ethanol fuel came out and the mpg dropped to 29mpg, and on top of that I have to drive 5 mph slower to get 29mpg, or else it's even worse. The explorer also lost about 2mpg.

Ethanol is worse for rubber hoses and aluminum lines, even though the car's are "supposedly" built to handle the ethanol due to some government rules, however in the long run they probably will have more maintenance issues related to ethanol and/or corrosion in the fuel system.

*I read a story on mpgresearch.com from a guy who removes the ethanol from gasoline in his garage. He puts the gas into a 5 gallon can. Then he pours in 1/2 gallon of water (10%). He shakes it up and then lets it sit. After a while the water and alcohol are combined and settle together to the bottom of the can. At the bottom of the can is a drain valve, he opens the drain valve until the water/alcohol (approx 1 gallon) is done pouring out. What's left is pure gasoline with no ethanol. If you've ever seen water in a fuel can it's very obvious, they don't mix at all, and it's very easy to drain water out of gas. All aircraft have a drain valve for water in the fuel tanks, you let it drain until suddenly it changes to gasoline, then your done. There's no worries about it being safe either, unless you have poor eyesight.

[Nevyn]

Originally Posted by DifferentPointofView

They're doing it to free up airwaves because the airwaves are so cluttered the government is having trouble with their communication from all the different frequencies being used. Helps them I suppose. And switching tv's is probably millions of dollars cheaper than altering car engines.

Well, the gov't was selling the airwaves via FCC auction. If there was a gov't car company, and they were selling the company, they could use the money from the sale to give you a coupon good towards a kit used to convert your car to the new fuel type.


At least that's how it would have to work in my head to be the same as the radio thing.

Originally Posted by GTO78

*I read a story on mpgresearch.com from a guy who removes the ethanol from gasoline in his garage. He puts the gas into a 5 gallon can. Then he pours in 1/2 gallon of water (10%). He shakes it up and then lets it sit. After a while the water and alcohol are combined and settle together to the bottom of the can. At the bottom of the can is a drain valve, he opens the drain valve until the water/alcohol (approx 1 gallon) is done pouring out. What's left is pure gasoline with no ethanol. If you've ever seen water in a fuel can it's very obvious, they don't mix at all, and it's very easy to drain water out of gas. All aircraft have a drain valve for water in the fuel tanks, you let it drain until suddenly it changes to gasoline, then your done. There's no worries about it being safe either, unless you have poor eyesight.

Would you then be able to measure the % ethanol that really was in the gas, if you mixed it with a known amount of water?

[trebuchet03]

Out of curiosity, because I can't remember.... When was ethanol first introduced into fuel? And, when did it become wide spread?

------
I was looking on the wiki page.... E85 flex vehicles in 2006 averaged ~25% lower fuel economy... Ethanol has ~34% less energy per unit volume... So, despite having 66% of the energy, you keep 75% of the economy.... I looked at the Monte Carlo in 2005 (not flex) and 2006 (flex fuel) - both model years have the same gasoline consumption - but the 2006 has a larger displacement engine. Both cars get piss poor FE regardless of fuel type Not defending, but I'm glad to see any gains at all in thermal efficiency

[some_other_dave]

Originally Posted by DifferentPointofView

Then how is that guy producing E100 and burning it for energy?

Ethanol is just Ethyl Alcohol, or more commonly referred to as "Moonshine"

One of the classes in my school (BSAA) is making E100, and I think they might Denature it for the use as a fuel (and so you can't really drink it...) But I'm pretty sure E85 isn't Pure ethanol, as its 15 percent gasoline, and E100 is used as fuel today. just not good in engines not built for it.

I guess I wasn't clear. I was saying that E85 was one alternative, and E100 was another alternative. I was also adding as an aside that you can't actually have 100% ethanol, because it is voraciously hygroscopic. (Ever watched an open bottle of Everclear? It gets more full on its own--freaky!! Supposedly it can overflow on its own, too, but we never let it last that long. )

The "denatured" stuff has benzine and lots of other lovely toxic chemicals in it, so it isn't quite 100% either. And it will still absorb water from the air...

You can get pretty close to 100% ethanol in a lab, but once you put it in anything vented to the atmosphere, it will quickly get (at least a bit!) diluted.

-soD

[Lazarus]

Originally Posted by i_am_socket

Pretty much every study I've looked at that says "ethanol is better" is using an engine designed to run on it. That's awesome that they can get better milage, but there's still 200,000,000 vehicles on the road right now using a fuel they weren't designed for that are getting worse milage.

I have gotten better mileage with ethanol in 3 different cars. A 2.0L, 3.0L, and a 1.6L. None were approved or modified for it. The mileage peaked at E20 blend. I know that's not the norm but maybe it has to do with driving style. Until I got to a blend of E50 did the cost per mile head the wrong way.

[mhmitszach]

Just throwing it out there...

But has any one noticed ethanol actually cost more than gasoline now?

[bennelson]

This photo is from a few weeks back when gas prices first really started dropping.

What was interesting is how E-85 was even lower!

I put 5 gallons of E-85 in my S10 this morning. The price of E-85 is currently 10 cents per gallon cheaper than regular unleaded.

Most of the summer it was 60-80 cents cheaper per gallon, and made it up to a buck a gallon less at one point this summer.

[trebuchet03]

Originally Posted by mhmitszach

Just throwing it out there...

But has any one noticed ethanol actually cost more than gasoline now?

How so?

http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/ is reporting E85 cheaper than gasoline.... Adjusted for energy, it's more - but that's nothing new. Sure, subsidies et. al. are still a factor - but nothing new there....

[mhmitszach]

Originally Posted by trebuchet03

How so?

http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/ is reporting E85 cheaper than gasoline.... Adjusted for energy, it's more - but that's nothing new. Sure, subsidies et. al. are still a factor - but nothing new there....

Gas was 1.58 while ethanol was 1.69

I'm sure gas is even lower than that now. Ethanol will stay 1.69 though. Town 10 miles east of that has gasoline for 1.19.

[DifferentPointofView]

Originally Posted by trebuchet03

Out of curiosity, because I can't remember.... When was ethanol first introduced into fuel? And, when did it become wide spread?

I'm not sure about that. but I know that ethanol was going to be used as the main fuel in the Ford Model T (so my friend who was gonna get one was saying) but since gas was cheaper, they went with that instead.

Same thing with diesel. the original diesel engine was gonna be made to run off peanut oil, but diesel was cheaper so they went with that.

Sucks to think like an american huh?