Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > General Efficiency Discussion
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 06-26-2008, 11:50 PM   #21 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Motor City
Posts: 89
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Ethanol does produce less energy per gallon, but FE does not go down proportionally, torque does. So, to get the same torque you'll open the throttle more, reducing pumping losses (improved volumetric efficiency). Depending on the engine, gearing, and load you may improve your overall efficiency faster by reducing those pumping losses faster than you're losing out due to the lower energy content.

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 06-27-2008, 10:03 AM   #22 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Auburn, NH
Posts: 451

Wicked Wanda - '99 VW Beetle GLS
90 day: 29.59 mpg (US)

Green Monster - '99 Ford Explorer Sport
90 day: 16.73 mpg (US)

Dad's Taxi - '99 Honda Odyssey EX
90 day: 24.23 mpg (US)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
For what it's worth, here is an EPA estimate for a Flexfuel Chevy Tahoe 1500 2WD:
City Hwy
Gas 14 20

E85 11 15

The E85 comes out ahead in the EPA's "Carbon Footprint" rating (tons/yr of CO2): 9.2 vs 11.4.

I've never seen E85 here in New England, so I'm curious how much is a gallon of E85?
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2008, 10:15 AM   #23 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: appleton wi, for now
Posts: 363

pontiac trans am - '00 pontiac firebird trans am

jeep 1 - '02 jeep wrangler
90 day: 16.76 mpg (US)

jeep 2 - '07 jeep wrangler x
90 day: 19.39 mpg (US)

Toyota - '09 Toyota Corolla lx
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
around here it is between .40 - 1.00 less than regular, i'll drive by the station today and tell you todays price difference
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2008, 10:17 AM   #24 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Motor City
Posts: 89
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Lee View Post
I run E85 in non-flex fuel vehicles.
I'd be careful of doing that -- best to follow the directions in the vehicle's book on fuel.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2008, 11:14 AM   #25 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Currently - Earth
Posts: 12

Zukibot - '07 Suzuki SX4 iAWD
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Having been switched to e10 in our area, expect to see a decrease in mileage. Maybe around 4%. Burns cleaner, but you get less mileage... Not a good trade-off. Potentially much worse for the environment and your vehicle. Definitely worse for your wallet.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2008, 11:22 AM   #26 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Colchester, CT
Posts: 38

POS - '97 Ford Aspire
90 day: 47 mpg (US)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
ethanol is bad for everyone, it decreased the amount of food availible for eating (and exporting to poor nations as aid), increases the cost of food, rasises our taxes (ethanol production is not profitable, it's HEAVILY subsidised), takes more energy to produce than you get out of it, can can drop MPGs. what is the benefit?
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2008, 11:41 AM   #27 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Posts: 531
Thanks: 11
Thanked 12 Times in 11 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocket View Post
ethanol is bad for everyone, it decreased the amount of food availible for eating (and exporting to poor nations as aid), increases the cost of food, rasises our taxes (ethanol production is not profitable, it's HEAVILY subsidised),
Have you seriously looked at food subsidies?
Are you familiar with the term dumping before you say high food prices is bad for the third world?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocket View Post
takes more energy to produce than you get out of it,
This is propeganda, as modern studies dont support this claim. It WAS only true of corn ethanol anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocket View Post
can can drop MPGs. what is the benefit?
Carbon neutral fuel.
Octane of 116 in its pure form.
Oxyegenate when mixed with gasoline
Much more ecologically friendly when spilled into the ground.
Has antifreeze properties when mixed with gas for winter use.
Ethanol has solvent properties that keep engine components cleaner.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2008, 11:56 AM   #28 (permalink)
Hypermiler
 
PaleMelanesian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,313

PaleCivic (retired) - '96 Honda Civic DX Sedan
90 day: 69.2 mpg (US)

PaleFit - '09 Honda Fit Sport
Team Honda
Wagons
90 day: 44.06 mpg (US)
Thanks: 605
Thanked 422 Times in 277 Posts
What other method of ethanol production is available in this country? So far, NONE. Cellulosic is only now beginning on a tiny scale. Sugar cane can only grow in small areas of the gulf coast. It's all corn.
__________________



11-mile commute: 100 mpg - - - Tank: 90.2 mpg / 1191 miles
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2008, 12:06 PM   #29 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: California
Posts: 73
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
E10 works in most cars, or so I've heard. But E10 can cause problems for other vehicles; sometimes the mix out of the pump is actually higher than 10% ethanol, and for some motors like outboards and inboards on boats, it can cause quite a few problems. I think its related to releasing deposits in the tanks, but I'm not sure.

Anyway, be careful using E10 or anything higher in ethanol in non-automotive motors.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2008, 12:07 PM   #30 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
ttoyoda's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: boston ma
Posts: 381
Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Quote:
What other method of ethanol production is available in this country? So far, NONE. Cellulosic is only now beginning on a tiny scale. Sugar cane can only grow in small areas of the gulf coast. It's all corn.
The real benefit of flex fuel would be to burn methanol. That you can get from digesting wood scraps and all sorts of trash.
Robert Zubrin on Making Oil Compete on National Review Online
From the article:
"
However, there is now a way to break OPEC, a surprisingly simple one. What is needed is for Congress to pass a law requiring that all new cars sold (not just made, but sold) in the U.S. be flex-fueled — that is, be able to run on any combination of gasoline or alcohol fuels. Such cars already exist — two dozen different models of flex-fuel vehicles (FFVs) are being produced by Detroit’s Big Three this year — and they only cost about $100 more than identical models that can run on gasoline only. (The switch to FFV requires only two minor upgrades: in the materials used in the fuel line and in the software controlling the electronic fuel injector.)

FFVs currently command only about 3 percent of the new-car market. After all, there is little upside for consumers to own one, with alcohol-fuel pumps being nearly as rare as unicorns. Little wonder: Why should gas-station owners dedicate one of their pumps to alcohol fuels (like E85 — a mix of 85-percent ethanol and 15-percent gasoline — or M50 — a mix of half methanol and half gasoline) when only a tiny percentage of cars can use them? But, within three years of the enactment of an FFV mandate, there would be 50 million cars on American roads capable of running on high-alcohol fuels. Under those conditions, fuel pumps dispensing E85 and M50 would be everywhere — creating, for the first time, an effectively open market in vehicle fuels, and competition for OPEC oil.

By mandating that all new cars sold in the U.S. have flex-fuel capacity, we would induce all foreign automakers who want access to the American car market to switch their lines to flex fuel as well, effectively making flex fuel the international standard. In addition to the 50 million FFVs we’d see in the U.S. in three years, there would be hundreds of millions more worldwide that could be powered by any number of alternative fuels derived from numerous sources around the globe, forcing gasoline to compete everywhere. This would effectively break the vertical monopoly that the oil cartel currently holds on the world’s fuel supply, constraining prices to the $50-per-barrel range (where alcohol fuels become competitive). "

This is a govt. regulation I could agree with. Better than most they come up with!

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[Article] Better Fuel Economy with Ethanol? SVOboy General Efficiency Discussion 62 04-02-2010 11:31 AM
Poll: MPG before and after hypermiling peterj Hypermiling / EcoDriver's Ed 36 04-23-2009 06:16 PM
Ethanol kills grain food market WaxyChicken The Lounge 14 12-11-2008 10:07 PM
Question regarding Scangauge MPG readout & DIY device Gregte DIY / How-to 5 05-19-2008 04:58 PM
School teams to compete in cross country MPG Challenge - Possible $1,000,000 prize ericbecky EcoModding Central 9 03-22-2008 09:15 PM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com