EV-1:America's fastest production car

[cfg83]

aerohead -

Originally Posted by aerohead

I went over every scrap of paper I have on the Impact/EV-1 and could find no mention of R&D costs....-------------------- A gasoline version of the Impact/EV-1 could have been available for the 1993 model year,and marketed as a Buick,Cadillac,Chevrolet,Daihatsu,Geo,Holden,Isuzu ,Lotus,Oldsmobile,Opel,Pontiac,Saab,Saturn ,or Toyota,or Vauxhall,at about $14,000(US).

Thanks, this puts the price in perspective. Since it was only ever leased, it's hard to tell how much they cost to build (in limited production). I also thought the body used more expensive materials to reduce weight, but a $14,000 price tag in 1993 is on par with a CRX SI. I paid $21K for my since-traded 1997 Saturn SC2. If a normal gasser EV-1 was sitting in the lot, it would have been verrrrrry tempting to pull the trigger.

Thinking about this just gets more and more depressing, .

CarloSW2

[1.5Ldave]

Originally Posted by Cd

( He's talking about the older ZR-1.)

Guess i need to brush up on my vette history, thanks for pointing that out.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by 1.5Ldave

I think you meant the corvette Z06, the ZR1 just came out this year and has a top speed in excess of 200 mph, thanks to its supercharged 640 hp LS9 motor.

Definitely interesting info though

Thanks 1.5Ldave! I was listing vehicles which were on the roads at the time of the EV-1's speed record.The '95 ZR-1 had only 405-Bhp at that time.----------- Today,with less than half the horsepower,the EV-1 would still blow the Corvette into the weeds.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by Cd

Aerohead, are you going to post some pictures and video ? We would all love to see what you are talking about.

Cd,the video is VHS format.It's not copyrighted and I have a release from GM to use it,so I may be able to persuade a transfer company to burn a DVD from the tape.Or,I may be able to "pause" the video and photograph the screen for some stills.-------------------- There are a couple of photos of the EV-1 in my photo album in the archives if you can find those.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by Cd

Uh.......What ?


O.K. I think I understand now.
This wierd formatting is confusing. It looks as if you were trying to say that the F50 had a Cd of 0.152 - the same as the Ford PROBE -IV .

Now that I re-read it, I'm guessing that what you are saying is that the modified EV-1 had a .152 Cd. Right ?

Right,I estimate that from the mods and lowering,that the Cd was dropped to 0.153.I had originally estimated the frontal area and carrying that value through the computations yielded Cd 0.152.-------- Later,I found the actual frontal area,which after noodling,yields Cd 0.153,achieved with the 1983 PROBE-IV,and 1960's FIAT non-production sedan.

[JQmile]

Awesome info! Aero does equal horsepower, as far as top speed figures go. If they are giving it more hp and enhancing the body with a boat-tail, then the production car land speed record is over 300mph. Still, for a mostly stock car, it is incredible.

[Clev]

Originally Posted by aerohead

I went over every scrap of paper I have on the Impact/EV-1 and could find no mention of R&D costs.Neither Ford nor Chrysler published costs for development of their EVs either.----------------- Aerovironment went from a clean sheet of paper,to a running Impact prototype in 18-months.Early estimates were $15,000-$25,000 for the Impact.By 1991,it is reported that GM didn't care what the Impact cost,their task was to meet the California Air Resources Board ZEV mandatory standards,with little regard for profit.Without ZEVs,automakers would be unable to sell ANY new cars in California( 25 % of US market ).------------------------- Calstart was able to develop their "Showcase Electric Vehicle",along with an EV bus and EV small commuter vehicle for $20,000,000.-------------------- Western Washington University produced their Viking-21 electric hybrid for $250,000,and estimated,with limited production,at 1,000 units a year,they could bring them to market at under $30,000 each.-------------------- A gasoline version of the Impact/EV-1 could have been available for the 1993 model year,and marketed as a Buick,Cadillac,Chevrolet,Daihatsu,Geo,Holden,Isuzu ,Lotus,Oldsmobile,Opel,Pontiac,Saab,Saturn ,or Toyota,or Vauxhall,at about $14,000(US).

In the book "The Car That Could", using numbers from the various sources in GM that he interviewed, the author determined that the cost to develop the EV1 was about $1 billion. This included specifically-designed batteries, motor and controller (GM wanted to use off-the-shelf parts, like Siemens motors and Panasonic batteries, but Delco and Delphi strong-armed GM into allowing them to develop and manufacture one-offs), several crash samples, and construction and tooling of an advanced highly automated assembly line. To put this in perspective, Ford spent about $1 billion on the 2003 facelift of the F150.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by JQmile

Awesome info! Aero does equal horsepower, as far as top speed figures go. If they are giving it more hp and enhancing the body with a boat-tail, then the production car land speed record is over 300mph. Still, for a mostly stock car, it is incredible.

Yeah,seems like Cda is the defining parameter for speed.And you'll notice that the aerodynamic road load absorbed 85 % of available horsepower,even without the LRR Michelin donuts.The long-tail Olds AEROTECH ( Cd 0.19 ) was pushing 300 mph at that same track,but with 800-horsepower,not 168.It is pretty incredible!

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by Clev

In the book "The Car That Could", using numbers from the various sources in GM that he interviewed, the author determined that the cost to develop the EV1 was about $1 billion. This included specifically-designed batteries, motor and controller (GM wanted to use off-the-shelf parts, like Siemens motors and Panasonic batteries, but Delco and Delphi strong-armed GM into allowing them to develop and manufacture one-offs), several crash samples, and construction and tooling of an advanced highly automated assembly line. To put this in perspective, Ford spent about $1 billion on the 2003 facelift of the F150.

Thanks Clev! Your book was cited in "MORE WITH LESS." I've not read that yet,but it's on the "list." It's good that they flesh out the story in greater detail.-------------

AeroVironment didn't have total control of Impact like they did with Sunraycer,and it sounds like there were many 120-decibel conversations with GM and it's divisions.Evidently,when Alan Cocconi found out Hughes was going to get it's inductive charging system,he walked out.------------

$1-billion sounds like chump-change nowadays.The entire Saturn Corp. only set GM back $ 2-billion.-----------------

Perhaps GM was confident that state-level lobbyists could kill the legislation mandating ZEVs.After receiving $500-million in taxpayer money to develop 80-mpg PNGV cars by 2007,to a lay-person,and in retrospect,it seems like it would have been a no-brainer for the Big-Three to deliver.Paul MacCready figured the President could get a war with three-television appearances,perhaps he could have cultivated an American market for 80-mpg cars in six.

[Clev]

Originally Posted by aerohead

Thanks Clev! Your book was cited in "MORE WITH LESS." I've not read that yet,but it's on the "list." It's good that they flesh out the story in greater detail.-------------AeroVironment didn't have total control of Impact like they did with Sunraycer,and it sounds like there were many 120-decibel conversations with GM and it's divisions.Evidently,when Alan Cocconi found out Hughes was going to get it's inductive charging system,he walked out.------------ $1-billion sounds like chump-change nowadays.The entire Saturn Corp. only set GM back $ 2-billion.----------------- Perhaps GM was confident that state-level lobbyists could kill the legislation mandating ZEVs.After receiving $500-million in taxpayer money to develop 80-mpg PNGV cars by 2007,to a lay-person,and in retrospect,it seems like it would have been a no-brainer for the Big-Three to deliver.Paul MacCready figured the President could get a war with three-television appearances,perhaps he could have cultivated an American market for 80-mpg cars in six.

GM loved the EV1 and was fully behind it... until they took it in to show it off to CARB. CARB realized that fully electric vehicles were possible and practical and started the ZEV mandates. THAT'S what made GM backtrack and kill off every scrap of EV1 they could find. It's fine being an environmental leader, but not if it cuts into your big truck profits.