Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > EcoModding Central
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-03-2022, 08:49 PM   #1 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Apr 2022
Location: Springfield OH
Posts: 26
Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Electric Power Steering Pump Question

I am looking at ways to remove load on the engine of my Jeep while retaining function. I think a good start is going with an electric pump which can be made to work easily. However I want to refine it since most retrofit installs have the pump either off or running 100% which I think will add the load back to the alternator negating gains. I want to be able to vary the amount of voltage based on speeds since I will only need it 90-100% below 25mph and can lower the voltage as speed incrases so cruiseing at highway speeds, the pump will not create load on the motor.

What are options where I can program a PWM output based on a VSS input? I was thinking of using a variable voltage fan controller from a Grand Caravan to regulate voltage to the pump, but I need something to tell it how much voltage to send.

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 05-03-2022, 09:02 PM   #2 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 27,561
Thanks: 7,736
Thanked 8,554 Times in 7,041 Posts
I don't know, but I'm willing to speculate that an OEM solution would be embedded in a larger system;leaving you the option of an Arduino or Raspberry Pico controller board. And some fairly simple programming.

edit:
I've thought about it some more, and the single-board computers I suggested are really overkill. Minimum would be the BASIC Stamp:
Quote:
BASIC Stamp
The BASIC Stamp is a microcontroller with a small, specialized BASIC interpreter built into ROM. It is made by Parallax, Inc. and has been popular with electronics hobbyists since the early 1990s.
More at Wikipedia
Even I could program in BASIC; set a GOTO loop,add in a timing delay and a few halting conditions and you're done.
__________________
.
.
Without freedom of speech we wouldn't know who all the idiots are. -- anonymous poster

____________________

Last edited by freebeard; 05-03-2022 at 10:18 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2022, 12:29 AM   #3 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 455

Jeep - '97 Jeep Cherokee Sport
90 day: 19.36 mpg (US)

Blueberry - '07 Toyota Camry SE
Thanks: 180
Thanked 101 Times in 77 Posts
If you are good at fabricating, consider an electric motor:

https://www.kartek.com/parts/400-wat...ering-kit.html

This 400W motor is good for up to 37 inch tires. This is much easier than trying to come up with a completely custom solution in my opinion.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2022, 01:23 AM   #4 (permalink)
Human Environmentalist
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,392

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 24.19 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 26.68 mpg (US)

Chevy ZR-2 - '03 Chevrolet S10 ZR2
90 day: 17.14 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,189
Thanked 4,378 Times in 3,353 Posts
BASIC stamp; haven't heard that referenced, ever.

That was my introduction to microcontrollers and robotics.

Not sure I'd start with power steering pump in my quest to make a Jeep run more efficiently, but it's something.
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2022, 06:20 AM   #5 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Apr 2022
Location: Springfield OH
Posts: 26
Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
BASIC stamp; haven't heard that referenced, ever.

That was my introduction to microcontrollers and robotics.

Not sure I'd start with power steering pump in my quest to make a Jeep run more efficiently, but it's something.
The electric powersteering idea is basically getting 2 birds stoned at once. The PS pump as it sits is very close to the steering shaft so I had to space the shaft support mount a good bit off the frame to avoid interference. This creates an issue with the steering shaft being so far off concentric from the hole in the firewall, I cant get the grommet to seal. There are other options to fix the firewall seal issue, just going with an electric pump will have some additional benefits too like more effiecient if installed correctly and more reliable.

I have not really dealt with programming, but willing to learn. I have very limited hands off understanding of CNC programming. Right now I am running a Holley Terminator where I can setup a PWM table within the tune to accomplish my goal and figure out what works best at what speeds fairly easy. But this is a temporary setup since I will be going with a stock EFI setup next winter and I really doubt I can have a programmable PWM output based on the VSS with that.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2022, 07:57 AM   #6 (permalink)
Corporate imperialist
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 11,175

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 141.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 269
Thanked 3,522 Times in 2,796 Posts
I have experimented with one it's prohibitively expensive for minimum gains.
But if you must I would say forget hydraulics. I bet by now there are off the shelf aftermarket electric power steering rigs for sale somewhere.
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.

Last edited by oil pan 4; 05-04-2022 at 08:08 AM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2022, 09:03 AM   #7 (permalink)
Focused on MPG
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Uphill from the river!
Posts: 429

Marinator - '06 Mercury Mariner Premier
90 day: 10.61 mpg (US)

SILVER BULLET - '19 DODGE GRAND CARAVAN GT
90 day: 18.08 mpg (US)

Myrtle - Wife's JKU - '12 Jeep JK Unlimited Sport
90 day: 15.51 mpg (US)
Thanks: 122
Thanked 126 Times in 100 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
I don't know, but I'm willing to speculate that an OEM solution would be embedded in a larger system;leaving you the option of an Arduino or Raspberry Pico controller board. And some fairly simple programming.

edit:
I've thought about it some more, and the single-board computers I suggested are really overkill. Minimum would be the BASIC Stamp:


Even I could program in BASIC; set a GOTO loop,add in a timing delay and a few halting conditions and you're done.
BASIC...Ahh I remember my teaching me how to insert the 5.25" floppy disk and type in the coding to make a snake game run....good ole commadore 64
__________________







Staying Focus'd on MPG
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2022, 09:13 AM   #8 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Apr 2022
Location: Springfield OH
Posts: 26
Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
I have experimented with one it's prohibitively expensive for minimum gains.
But if you must I would say forget hydraulics. I bet by now there are off the shelf aftermarket electric power steering rigs for sale somewhere.
I looked into that and it just seems like there is no room for most electric steering column adapters to fit under the dash of a TJ but I have not had a kit in hand to see. I might see if I can convince one of these manufactures to send me a 3D CAD space model of one of their units, I could just 3D print it and try and mock it up.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2022, 09:50 AM   #9 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Ecky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 5,005

ND Miata - '15 Mazda MX-5 Special Package
90 day: 42.54 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,866
Thanked 2,501 Times in 1,547 Posts
I second that I would not go the route of replacing a mechanical hydraulic pump with an electric hydraulic pump. Honda integrates a motor into their rack, whereas Toyota integrates it into the steering column. Both use a torque sensor to adjust assist. A lot of people retrofit the Toyota system into other cars.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2022, 03:08 PM   #10 (permalink)
Corporate imperialist
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 11,175

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 141.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 269
Thanked 3,522 Times in 2,796 Posts
An effective electro hydraulic setup is going to suck power. I think mine ran at 50 to 60 amps no load, which was fine for a diesel truck with a big alternator with big alt wires and big batteries.

__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.

Last edited by oil pan 4; 05-08-2022 at 02:18 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com