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Old 01-04-2013, 11:43 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Check the exhaust manifold where the top O2 sensor goes in. Many of these civics (including mine) end up cracking there. It's right up top in front, easy to find.

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Old 01-04-2013, 12:48 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronMartinSole View Post
Yeah I shorted it out with a paper clip and the check engine light came flashing on. What is the factory setting? is it the second metal mark to the right of the white top dead center mark? Because that's where I tried to get it as close as possible, but it's still ahead, a little left of that metal mark.
Failing smog. No fun. But good on ya for a positive spirit about it.

On my 1998 DX stock setting is 12* BTDC ... go online looking for the Honda service manual for your car and check there.

In my last smog, I almost failed in one category. The tech said I should suspect the O2 sensors if I had never changed them. A few weeks later, I got a CEL for the upstream sensor. Pulled it and found it was ridiculously fouled. So I replaced it. Your 92 only had one sensor. Check it. Replace it with a good one. I'd do that before plugs and such, since your ECU uses the sensor to set AFR.
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See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.



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Old 01-04-2013, 07:09 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Always set timing to spec run really hard on freeway then smog.
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Old 01-05-2013, 02:34 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Here is a link to an article with pictures on how to set the timing on a 1990 CRX. http://crxcommunity.com/viewtopic.php?t=16915 Your 92 is the next generation of motor, but the process should still be pretty close to the same. Unfortunately a couple of the pictures are missing.

From very high NOx, plus somewhat high HC, I would think you're running quite lean--lean enough either for some misfires, or for the burn not to be complete. A new O2 sensor probably couldn't hurt the readings, and might help. Not sure if the 92 has EGR or not; if it does then your EGR system could have problems.

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Old 01-06-2013, 12:57 AM   #15 (permalink)
Your car looks ridiculous
 
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So I just replaced my PCV valve, which took almost an hour, lol. Should have taken less than five minutes. Again, took about half an hour to find where it was, when of course it was staring in my face, mocking me the entire time. "Man, look at this idiot. He's never going to find me. I'm clogged here!" Yeah, turns out, thing was clogged shut. Shook that thing and it barely rattled. And the hole it was in was super dirty too. I took a few sad swipes at it with some q-tips, but like that really helped. "Wow, look at this massive underground New York sewer caked with dirt! I know what will help, this tiny q-tip!" (edit: turns out it's a dirty PCV valve grommet, and I'm supposed to just buy a new one for few dollars.) YouTube ultimately helped me find the PCV valve. I am the worst diagram reader. You could give me a diagram of how to tie my shoes and it would take me days. I think it's a legitimate form of dyslexia. Diagram-dyslexia. I stumbled across something called a PCV breather box or something. Managed to get one bolt off while underneath the car, tried to smack it with a rubber mallet, then gave up. Lol, story of my life.

Watched a short video of the PCV Postive Crankcase Ventilation system. I think a clogged PCV can cause high NOx readings, but I have no idea. Am I wrong? Because I think the idea is that exhaust fumes escape, and the PCV kind of recycles it back into the engine to burn it more completely, resulting in fewer emissions. I think that's the same idea with the EGR Exhaust Gas Recirculation. Recycling and re-burning the fumes. Something like that.

So do I need to clean out the breather box? Is this part of the recommended and necessary maintenance?

Also I just changed my manual transmission fluid using AMSOIL Synchromesh or something. It was $10 a bottle at a mom and pop store! Filled 2 Quarts. But it seemed like only a quart and half came out. I think they made a price check mistake selling it that cheap. I filled it with the car on jack stands. Someone recommended that I let the car down, then fill it. How do I know it has the right amount without a dipstick? I think someone said just fill until it stops dripping out or if you put your finger in it and feel fluid, it should be fine, and you should fill and check the level on the ground, not on jack stands. So I plan on letting the car down and then seeing if some pours out. If it doesn't, I'll stick my finger in and check if I feel fluid. If I do, then I hope it's okay? Please correct me if I'm missing something.

Now next on the list of things to do in order of highest priority, main goal being to pass the dreaded smog test.

1.) O2 Sensor (Is there any way to check it? I'd like to be able to save the money if possible. Would a junkyard O2 sensor possibly work? edit: oh there is a way. I'm checking it out right now but it looks like a tester is needed. edit 2: oh great, the tester only costs $100! I guess I'll just knuckle under and buy a $60 sensor ;(!!! )
2.) Clean EGR
3.) Clean PCV Breather Box? And if I should, how in the world do I get it off? I took the bolt on the bottom out, and I can't find any other bolts. I felt all around it.
4.) Check spark plugs and re-gap.

edit: Did some more reading.

5.) I'm going to check for vacuum leaks? (no idea how)
6.) Check for a dirty MAF and clean it. (Car only has MAP - Manifold Absolute Pressure. Still researching.)
7.) Check throttle bodies.
8.) Check fuel injectors.
9.) Check air regulator or IAC.
10.) Replace fuel filter.
11.) Valve adjustment.
12.) Check for exhaust system backpressure. http://www.civicforums.com/forums/17...kpressure.html

I have no idea what these things are, what they do, or where they are. Awesome! Really hoping adjusting the timing will do the trick. And a lot of these things are good maintenance anyway.

One interesting thing to add is the speedometer on this car is very erratic jumping everywhere. If I remember right it seems to work okay over 40mph.

That's all I got. I'm out of bullets. Is there something else I should do?

Read something off a forum that was interesting. Don't know if it's true:

"replacing good catalytic converters is a favourite scam of muffler shops.
they used to do it long before there was emissions testing.

converters on older cars dodn't reduce NOx emissions.
mine doesn't. I think it's called a one-stage converter.
Only 2-stage converters on later cars do anything to reduce NOx. "

I could check the cat by comparing the inlet and outlet temperatures. I think the outlet temperature should be as high or higher than the inlet or something.

I heard some shops put a fan in front of the car and says it makes a difference. Who knows if that's true. I have heard that turning the heat on while the test is running may help. Should help dissipate the heat. I've gotta remember to try that, but the smog tech will probably turn it off when he gets in the car anyway, who knows. Plus it's basically cheating isn't it, heh.

The smog history on this car is interesting. It failed two times in the span of three weeks, then passed 2 months later. The smog tech said maybe they passed illegally. Basically pay someone to test another car and write it down as theirs, bribing the smog tech with some money. Who knows. But I refuse to take that route and I know that I can pass it and with flying colors. It would be worth it for the joy of that victory alone. Couldn't live with myself, driving in a car filled with lies. I will get her back to health and I will treat her right.

Last edited by AaronMartinSole; 01-06-2013 at 06:09 AM..
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:22 AM   #16 (permalink)
Your car looks ridiculous
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
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The Fantastic Festiva - '90 Ford Festiva L
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Just took out my O2 sensor. Goes right into the exhaust manifold, just like you said PaleMelanesian. Looked up Melanesian out of curiosity. It's like New Guinea and the islands off of the northeast coast of Australia. OOo Fiji is there. I never knew. Must be beautiful. Man I'd love to live on an island, like Hawaii or something. I've got family there and visited once. Screw it, maybe I should move to Hawaii. Sacramento is the worst place on the face of the earth, lol. I'll be on Hawaii's Craigslist.

So I just took out my O2 sensor and it looks like a grey barbecue grill. I guess I'll go buy a new $60 one... What was that? A junkyard O2 sensor would be okay? ALRIGHT! No but seriously, would a junkyard O2 sensor work? I think I know the answer to that. .

edit: Gentlemen, this will be my new home in Hawaii: http://i.imgur.com/OML8b.png A tree house for $500 a month, made by some hippies. Hey, I'm an eco-modding hippy, sort of. Lol, awesome. I love the place already.

Wow they've actually got these incredible little cabins, some really nice, some a little more rough. Off-grid and solar powered. All under $500 a month. Really islandly and hippyish and wandererish. It's interesting. Reminds me of a lot of the innovative homes on faircompanies.com. Check it out: http://faircompanies.com/blogs/view/...s-so-far-2012/ Lol, she literally said, "We live in a home that is paid off. We have no mortgage." Like what? That's not real or possible. She must live on another planet where people don't have mortgages. I believe she is a crazy person.

Last edited by AaronMartinSole; 01-06-2013 at 01:45 AM..
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Old 01-06-2013, 02:02 AM   #17 (permalink)
Your car looks ridiculous
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
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The Fantastic Festiva - '90 Ford Festiva L
90 day: 43.16 mpg (US)

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90 day: 34.9 mpg (US)

Ranger Danger - '96 Ford Ranger XL
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I just found the entire factory manual online: 92 Civic Factory Service Manual.

Man the internet is awesome.

Last edited by AaronMartinSole; 01-06-2013 at 02:08 AM..
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:46 AM   #18 (permalink)
Your car looks ridiculous
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
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The Fantastic Festiva - '90 Ford Festiva L
90 day: 43.16 mpg (US)

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Found this on another forum:

Quote:
Originally Posted by silverunner99
Hello MTL_4runner,
I have few questions for you (or anybody else that would like to answer):

re. #1) What's an A/F sensor?
re. #2) For the MAF sensor, shouldn't I use the electrical cleaner instead?
re. #4) How would I check vacuum leak?

Thanks!
_______
an A/F sensor is just like an O2 sensor, but it is electrically different and
sends different voltage to the ECU from in front of the cat. California emissions have them, federal just have 02
it costs about double what an o2 sesor costs. stealership sold me one the ohter day for 217 and the
o2 sensor is 140.

so if you have a California emissions, it is an A/F sensor. definitely not interchangeable with an O2 sensor.

a lot of people have a bad A/F, install an o2 sensor by mistake, and reset the ecu. the car will run wicked
awesome for about 1/2 or a full tank, as the ECU gets a good heater reading from the o2, and thinks
the engine is rich. short term trim and long term default trim fights and runs the engine wicked crisp and
wicked lean, giving you amazing mileage...for a short time. the amazing mileage comes with a huge emissions
penalty of high nox... [as you hear your cats crackle and pop from the higher heat as it burns off any carbon
from the previous problem of a bad sensor and rich condition. you just cleaned up your cats a bit...]

then the computer finally decides the signal pattern is bogus, switches to cripple mode and runs you
rich, putting you back to square one.

anyhow....A/F is air fuel and it gives the ECU a more exact ratio of oxygen, whereas an O2 sensor just tells
the ECU you are either rich or lean, no inbetween. california ECU is programmed to use A/F signals, [but can handle
the signals from a mistakenly installed o2 for a short while, it treats it like rich, then broken.]
----------------------

What's very interesting is my car definitely has that raindrops on tin, crinkling noise after shutting off the engine, quite a lot. I'm still reading and trying to comprehend this. This post was also educational:

-----------------------

I was a Cali Smog Tech for about 10 years.... so trust me I don't know sheit!

But, FWIW....

A "porperly running engine" will produce no more NOx than 300ish under "normal conditions".
So, a new cat may burn more NOx than the old one but you're not fixing the problem.

NOx is formed durring combustion when cylinder temps are high. 1800* is when it starts to form IIRC. (probly wrong about that #)

The primary job of the EGR is to lower cylinder temps by recycling a inert gas through the cylinders.
MOST NOx failures are coused by a EGR problem of some sort.
Usually low flow. But since yours doesn't use a EGR, well...... I dunno.

One thing's fo sho, something's causing excessive cylinder temps.

"Will higher octane fuel help reduce NOx?" Yes! Higher Octane fuel burns cooler so it could/should help, but probly not much.

-----------------

And another interesting and informative post:

-----------------

Since I ran a shop for 8 years, worked as an Automotive Anylist for product development for an advanced OBD diagnostic software company... I prolly dont know **** either... but I will take a stab or 2...

A cat may very well fix the symptom of too much NOX as there are nox scrubbers in most converters.

However note that I said symptom, As has been stated previously high NOx Is a result of high combustion chamber temps.

Running Lean results in high combustion cyl temps.
Running Rich results in lower combustion cyl temps.

Things to check

#1 O2 Sensors. You may not get a code for a sensor, This does not mean that there is no chance of a sensor problem. Lemme splain

The way that I used to explain this, even when speaking at the Clean Air Conference in Boulder this past year is as follows.

Think of the way a narrow range O2 sensor works like a football field. The sensor should fluctuate right around the 50 yard line so long as Short term fuel trim and long term fuel trim are in the correct range. However using the OBD2 system it will only set a code if it repeatedly finds itself way down in the endzones. It can operate in the "grey area" on either end without setting a code. This will cause the fuel trims to be off, which can result in a lean condition that can cause NOX gas to be too high.

If you would like information on how to test for this just post up and I will write it out for you. Assuming you have a scanner that will show you "Mode 6"

#2 Vacuum leak... pretty self explanitory, however you would likely have a code.

gabe

----------------
Treat the symptom, or find the cause and thus the cure. Just like health.

Last edited by AaronMartinSole; 01-06-2013 at 04:12 AM..
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Old 01-06-2013, 05:54 AM   #19 (permalink)
Your car looks ridiculous
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Northern California
Posts: 96

The Fantastic Festiva - '90 Ford Festiva L
90 day: 43.16 mpg (US)

A Civic Duty - '96 Honda Civic LX
90 day: 34.9 mpg (US)

Ranger Danger - '96 Ford Ranger XL
90 day: 17.42 mpg (US)
Thanks: 23
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So I'm having a heck of a time trying to find my EGR Valve, or where it's supposed to be. Finding where it is is half the battle, lol. Been all over the internet.

I put my finger in the space I marked out and it feels solid, like there's no place for air or anything to go through. Like it's just a bolt holding spot. I don't know I'm clueless here. D15B7 motor if it means anything.

+Oh man... oh man I'm an idiot. EGR valves did not come with this particular engine. Lol. The online manual I looked at showed one. Only 1 motor out of the 5 of this 5th generation 92-95 Civic had an EGR valve. Lol. So I suppose they just welded shut where an EGR valve would be on other motor versions. Two worthless bolt holes and an opening, just worthless and mocking.
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Last edited by AaronMartinSole; 01-06-2013 at 06:01 AM..
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Old 01-06-2013, 06:53 PM   #20 (permalink)
Your car looks ridiculous
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Northern California
Posts: 96

The Fantastic Festiva - '90 Ford Festiva L
90 day: 43.16 mpg (US)

A Civic Duty - '96 Honda Civic LX
90 day: 34.9 mpg (US)

Ranger Danger - '96 Ford Ranger XL
90 day: 17.42 mpg (US)
Thanks: 23
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Ladies and gentlemen, I am a madman.

I tried for an hour unsuccessfully to remove the top bolt of the breather box. I accidentally overtightened it going the wrong way. RIGHTY TIGHTY LEFTY LOOSEY! Oh the pain and anguish. I gave up. Oh well. Man I tried everything. Hopefully I'll come up with something or find some perfect tool.

So I just replaced the PCV valve which was caked up, the oxygen sensor, and the fuel filter. I drove the car hard for ten miles or so, came home, and checked the tail-pipe. The tail-pipe since I got it, has just been spewing smog. I mean talk about being a gross polluter. After those replacements and the run, it was smog-free out of the tail-pipe.

I was exuberant. But I'm not going to get my hopes up, just to fail the smog again. I am completely ready to handle another smog fail, and it will only motivate me more. Never knew trying to pass smog could be so fun and exciting and suspenseful. I like a challenge.


Last edited by AaronMartinSole; 01-06-2013 at 09:02 PM..
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