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Old 09-29-2020, 09:29 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Flow sensor

Got a couple of the old Zemco DCS 310 Car Fuel computers, only problem is the old fuel flow sensors, especially late model high pressure fuel systems.

So looking for fuel flow sensors for high pressure systems.

Rich

Here is a link to a picture of one:

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=...30978023627450



Last edited by racprops; 10-17-2020 at 01:09 PM.. Reason: Add link to picture
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Old 09-30-2020, 07:45 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Hey there mate,

Can you elaborate on anything you're looking for? Maybe what model car or what fuel measuring you're trying to achieve?

Is this for a diesel or petrol application?

Cheers

glen
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Old 09-30-2020, 08:10 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Back in the 70s or 80s Emeco or ENCO made a device kind of like the MPGunio called a Add on “Driving Control System” travel mileage computer.

It worked by mounting two small magnets to your drive shaft, and mounting a small coil on an arm next to the shaft to produce an early version of VSS.

Then you placed in your fuel line near the carb the flow sensor.

Like the MPGunio once calibrated it then gave MPG, Miles left in tank, miles per hour, avg.MPG, MPG on Trip and perhaps a thing of more.

One great thing is as it makes its own signals it is unaffected by anything done to the cars computer and to the injectors. And there is a couple of features that the MPGunio does not do.

The main problem is the flow sensor was made to handle carb and early fuel injection pressures, which in a carb is under 5 PSI and in say TBI systems are under 20PSI.

My Fords with their Port injection run as high as 30/60PSI and higher.

So I fear fuel leaks from these old fuel flow sensors, and it has been reported the BB inside were out so I cannot expect a long life as well.

So thought I would once again look for better newer low cost flow sensors.

My cars are gasoline burning.

Here is a link to a picture of one:

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=...30978023627450


Last edited by racprops; 09-30-2020 at 08:16 AM..
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Old 09-30-2020, 08:58 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Ah! as I suspected

Well sir, unfortunately unless your fuel injection system is 'returnless' a flow sensor will just return the entire volume of fuel the fuel pump flows through the fuel rail past the injectors and back to the tank.

What features does your other system do that the MPGuino doesn't? I have the ability to add almost anything to the MPGuino Colour to do with fuel usage, milage or trip information.
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Old 09-30-2020, 09:30 PM   #5 (permalink)
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“Well sir, unfortunately unless your fuel injection system is 'returnless' a flow sensor will just return the entire volume of fuel the fuel pump flows through the fuel rail past the injectors and back to the tank.

First my I figured out how to add aftermarket fuel pressure regulator with a fuel return right next to my TBI system so from it to the injectors is a one way trip. Problem solved. Plus I can then manually change pressures as well.

My o2 Ford Explorer and my 03 Crown Vic are already “Returnless”


What features does your other system do that the MPGuino doesn't? I have the ability to add almost anything to the MPGuino Colour to do with fuel usage, milage or trip information.”

OK I do want a flow sensor so that I can do things to the injector’s pulses and not throw the MPGunio off.

And I want to be able to do things to the PCM and again not throw MPGunio an ScanguageII off, I learned early mess with the PCM and you can get false readings, like 45MPG..when it is only doing 27MPG.

As for other features:

Fuel in tank, by telling the computer the size of the tank and that you just filled up it can tell how many gallons are left at any point.

Told how far you going it can tell you how much fuel will be need to get there and farthere is to get there.
Even est time to get there.
Fuel left in tank and how many miles that will take you on your current MPG.

Granted not really needed, just I really want the real time fuel flow sensor.

One other good feature is you can really calibrate this, Miles Per Hour is done by starting as zero and driving 10 + miles and then correcting its read out, the longer reading will give a more accurate MILES driven and from that MPH.

The MPG is calibrated by the same kind of system for the first 5 to 10 tanks of gas you keep correcting its readings for MPG by calalating the MPG and then correcting the computer, it can be come very accurate with that system.
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Old 10-01-2020, 12:13 AM   #6 (permalink)
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All I know is that accurately measuring small flow volumes can be tricky. I remember a sensor that used a 'vortex street' of pins the fuel flowed through.

So I put a search term into DuckDuckGo and selected a block from the first page.

Quote:
NAVICO Electronic Fuel Flow Probe Sensor | West Marine
https://www.westmarine.com/buy/lowra...nsor--15957285
The Fuel Flow Sensor tracks engine fuel flow, fuel used, trip fuel used and seasonal fuel used - sharing the information with any compatible display unit connected to the NMEA 2000® network. With a speed source in the network, the fuel flow sensor can also calculate fuel economy.

In-Vehicle Flow Meters for Fuel Consumption Measurement
https://www.sentronics.com/applicati...n-measurement/
Precision 'low flow' volumetric fuel flow meter for testing of high-efficiency road car engines. Capable of measuring fuel flow rates of 0-4000 ml/min, FlowSonic LF delivers direct volumetric flow measurement with calculated mass flow measurement, with a 500:1 turndown ratio.

Buy FLOSCAN Marine Products at Discount Prices from CE ...
https://cemarine.com/collections/floscan
FloScan is the world's #1 producer of fuel flow sensor systems - over 500,000 used on cars, trucks, boats, and airplanes. (As a matter of fact, they invented them for each of these industries). Mercury Marine uses our fuel flow instruments to test engines.

Maretron - Fuel Flow Monitor (FFM100)
https://www.maretron.com/products/ffm100.php
Fuel Flow Sensor 8-70 LPM (2.11-18.5 GPM) MSRP $895. Part Number: M8AR Flow range : 480 to 4200 LPH (127 to 1110 GPH) Installation Instructions (pdf) Installation Instructions (html) Fuel Flow Sensor 10-100 LPM (2.64-26.4 GPM) MSRP $995. Part Number: M16AR
Top Quality Kytola Flow Meters - For Liquids, Oil and Gases
kytola.com
Operating since 1945. Proven expertise and quality....
Stuff that jumped out at me bolded.
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Old 10-05-2020, 05:49 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racprops View Post
...Fuel in tank, by telling the computer the size of the tank and that you just filled up it can tell how many gallons are left at any point.
...
Fuel left in tank and how many miles that will take you on your current MPG...
These are features in the MPGuino colour version, which are features i use the most. Distance to empty is extremely useful.

I hope you can find a good flow sensor! I didn't even know such systems were accurate enough for this use! I would be interested for a carburetor application.

Cheers
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Old 10-05-2020, 09:07 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Well as I am working on tight budget, I try to keep my cost as low as possible.

One good part of this old computer is its dead simple programing, drive a set amount of miles and correct the computers counting of its VSS and the miles traveled and thus all readings using miles traveled is set, speed, MPG etc.

Then with a few fill ups and correction of the systems counts of the flow sensor and your miles per gallon is set and all the fuel readings are also set.

For some of my testing where I am fooling the PCM, I found I get false readings from a Scan GaugeII, and if I do my planed messing with the injector cycles I fear that could mess up the MPHunios readings, as it is set to figure things from the injector duty cycles.

With this set up it is totally totally independent of any of the cars systems. I believe I am just about the only person that could need such a system, and even I may not really need it, but will not know until I test my ideas and see.

I am sure the MPGunio can also be programed about the same way.

The only things it needs is the magnets on the drive shaft and a flow sensor made compatible to its system.

And I think the cost will not be too bad.

Rich
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Old 10-17-2020, 07:57 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Zemco Fuel injection interface

Greetings Gentlemen

Are you aware Zemco made a conversion box for Fuel injection usage ?

It is a relatively basic circuit ,it has already been reverse engineered on www.airforums.com ,just search Zemco.

Tp
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Old 10-17-2020, 08:40 AM   #10 (permalink)
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First thanks, found the threat: https://www.airforums.com/forums/f15...rs-184587.html

BUT you missed my reason for wanting a fuel flow sensor.

Some of my ideas and plans are to interfere with the systems controlling the fuel injectors directly, lower supply voltages, signals changes etc.

Such acts could mess up the readings.

AS I was using a Scan Gauge II. I was tuning the MAF sensors and the scan gauge II showed I was getting 45 MPG and better.

It was false data, I learned it could not report accurate data when the cars PCM was fooled. A 200 mile test drive from fill up to fill up showed that.

This flaw lead me to this site and the MPGunio which as long as I do not mess with the injectors reads accurate MPG.

BUT it too is dependent of the signals from the injectors so I want to by pass that weakness with a system that reads the real fuel flow used to power the engine.

Rich

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