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Old 03-21-2013, 11:43 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by foozil747 View Post
For what its worth...they aren't fracking for the natural gas. They are fracking for the crude. Natural gas is simply present in the wells they dig and they typically vent it or burn it off because they don't think its valuable enough to capture and transport it.....Sorry for the rant.
Apologies for perpetuating this OT, but you must not be in Colorado - they are fracking FOR natural gas, there is a huge gas boom going on right now and TBoone is proud.

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Old 03-22-2013, 03:34 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Have you tried setting up with the local restaurants for their grease? If you had 5+ restaurants you might be able to supple enough of the grease for your biodiesel.

I'm not in Colorado. Im in Utah and have a few friends in the oil fields right now for the oil. They are working for different companies one in ND and another in WY, TX. All three of them perform different duties but say after the well is drilled they either vent or burn off the natural gas then frack for the oil. I didn't know they were fracking for the nat gas.

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Old 03-22-2013, 06:17 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Hello,

this is quite the conundrum

I currently have a BMW 328 with LPG setup (basically the same kit as CNG) and a Diesel VW Golf that I run on a mix of veg/diesel (a poor man's bio, if you will)

For work my commute is circa 17000 miles p/a, and then I do 10-15k on top running about, so similar overall mileage to you- here's what I think:

LPG/CNG

1. My 328 gets circa 26 imp mpg using an old style single point set up- its not the best for economy, or power, but it gets the job done, and car is fast and smooth

2. In terms of servicing costs, mine needed a new vapourisor in Nov last year, was 75 (less than a new petrol pump for in the tank). Filters are peanuts (5 ish max). The gas means less bore wash of the oil by petrol, which means the oil lasts longer, and comes out golden.

3. Range- with a 60L tank holding 50L (can only fill to 80%) I get circa 270-300 miles depending on what I'm doing. this makes the PEMPG (Petrol Equiv MPG) circa 45-50 imp mpg. On straight unleaded the best I've managed over a tank is 37mpg, so it does offer a saving. My car had the kit already fitted, but if I installed it today (900) the payback is approx 12 months. Between the Petrol and LPG, I'm close on 800 miles range

4. Availability- Having moved house, I no longer have an LPG station near my home, but I still have 3 within 5 miles of work. If I need to fill up at home, I combine it with a trip to see my parents (earn some "good son" points!). I also have an App on my phone that has maps of all the LPG stations in the UK, and has prices updated by users daily.

5. Cost- Our Chancellor (head of the treasury) announced on Wednesday that the LPG taxation was being held at current levels for the next couple of years- so its approx 1/2 the cost of Petrol here


Diesel/Bio Diesel

1. No noticable difference in MPG between running pump diesel vs 30% veg oil. It has to be noted though, the car is nowhere near as engaging or entertaining to drive as the 328i- but runs ok on veg (unless its too cold, then its stuttery and wont hold an idle!)

2. I reckon I need a new fuel filter, due to the gunk cleaned out my lines (12) and the glowplugs are having a hard shift in the cold mornings- but blending the fuel seems to help. Regular bio diesel wont have this problem as it wont be as thick as Veg

3. Being Diesel, range is not an issue 650 miles is not uncommon- veg/no veg appears to have no real impact on range. this is a big thing for me, means less than a tank a week- rather than 2 fills of LPG

4.Availability- Pump diesel available everywhere, Veg oil available from all supermarkets ( I use a couple of sites to compare prices- aiming for 1 a litre of veg). Regarding Bio- Diesel, I reckon discussions with local take aways etc could be fruitful- but I dont know how happy the girlfriend would be with me refining bio at the house

5. Still using pump diesel (1.459/L) and paying 1/L for veg. Assuming I can get to using more veg- say 50% in summer, my costs per mile should go down.

I use the golf for commuting, my Mrs uses the 328 for her work (she gets 15 days commuting to a tank of LPG)

Both cars have their place, but at the moment, diesel wins for my purposes (low cost commuting on boring roads!)

In short- in your position, I'd be asking myself " do I need my truck as it is?"

If you need load hauling capacity- then probably yes,

but if you just need 4wd, then something like a Subaru with CNG would be a better bet.

or do you have any smaller 4wd pickups with diesel- like the Ford Ranger etc?
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Old 03-22-2013, 12:15 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Somebody beat me to all the local restauranteurs. I'm not willing to bid up the price of inedible grease for biofuel feedstock.

No way I'm gonna have a unibody car. Low top sills (for torsional stiffness) defeat me. I'm a body-on-frame kinda guy. Hence the F350 and Imp.

My truck is not 4x4, which makes it unusual. I rely on good tires and good driving (just like the state police) to get around in the winter. I like it because it is roomy, solidly made, reliable, a diesel and a manual transmission. Phil Knox (aerohead) drove it and found the combination of gearing and engine torque to be satisfactory.

Do I ever think of getting a smaller vehicle to replace the F-350? Yeah. Every time I park it. It's like parking the USS Nimitz. I muse about a Ranger with a Benz OM 606. The trick is mating up the DIN engine with a SAE bellhousing and transmission. Can be done, but will take some custom machining. As with many denizens of this site, I find an automatic to be unacceptable.
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Old 03-22-2013, 12:30 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
responses:

Somebody beat me to all the local restauranteurs. I'm not willing to bid up the price of inedible grease for biofuel feedstock.

No way I'm gonna have a unibody car. Low top sills (for torsional stiffness) defeat me. I'm a body-on-frame kinda guy. Hence the F350 and Imp.

My truck is not 4x4, which makes it unusual. I rely on good tires and good driving (just like the state police) to get around in the winter. I like it because it is roomy, solidly made, reliable, a diesel and a manual transmission. Phil Knox (aerohead) drove it and found the combination of gearing and engine torque to be satisfactory.

Do I ever think of getting a smaller vehicle to replace the F-350? Yeah. Every time I park it. It's like parking the USS Nimitz. I muse about a Ranger with a Benz OM 606. The trick is mating up the DIN engine with a SAE bellhousing and transmission. Can be done, but will take some custom machining. As with many denizens of this site, I find an automatic to be unacceptable.
Fair play- just thinking out loud

I'd love to be able to afford to run an e30 with a 3.5 in it for a daily, without LPG..however, I'd need to be making 3x my salary to do that

a good compromise leaves everyone thoroughly frustrated
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Old 03-22-2013, 03:03 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 320touring View Post
I currently have a BMW 328 with LPG setup (basically the same kit as CNG) and a Diesel VW Golf that I run on a mix of veg/diesel (a poor man's bio, if you will)
CNG fuel systems are more overbuilt than LPG ones, since their working pressures are also higher. I'm aware of some accidents due to the refuelling of LPG-converted vehicles with CNG...

LPG kits might be easier to get in America, most notably EPA-certified ones, than an EPA-certified CNG kit. It's also worth to note that some Chinese-made non-EPA-certified kits have a lower safety standard, so it wouldn't worth the risk to use them in America due to the CNG pressure back there. In China there are still some CNG refuelling stations which have pressures around 1800psi...
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Old 03-27-2013, 02:22 AM   #27 (permalink)
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As long as you stick with the DOT approved cylinders (not chinese) and have legitimate high pressure tubing rated up 5000psi, the cng kits are safe. Also make sure you have a shutoff valve in a location between the tank and regulator in the event it is ever needed.
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Old 03-27-2013, 02:57 AM   #28 (permalink)
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This is as far as I got with using CNG.
Any one using this type of CNG tank set up? - Diesel Place : Chevrolet and GMC Diesel Truck Forums

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Old 02-04-2019, 01:15 AM   #29 (permalink)
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CNG has lost some of its appeal among the general public in Brazil recently, but remains strong in Argentina

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Old 02-08-2019, 08:42 AM   #30 (permalink)
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I have been pomdering about lpg and cng for a long time now. My desire is not to use it as a primary fuel but to have it as a supplemental fuel for diesel.

I recently did a calculation with my local prices vs energy content.

Diesel 6.04 MJ/TL
LPG 7.06 MJ/TL
NG 122.3 MJ/TL
Where TL is Turkish liras.
Natural gas is way cheaper than the rest. But it is atmpspheric (at my home) and does not include compression costs.


A conversion is not really feasible (for me) unless it is diy.

With a small econobox which consumes 4-5 l/100 km and my daily commute of about 50km that would equate to about 2-2.5 liters of diesel per day.

Current diesel supplementation systems can go up to 70 percent cng and 30 percent diesel. (I have heard of 90-10 aswell).

Although i have all the equipment for scooba diving, for cng i would not want to mess with the high pressure gasses. Especially with cobbled up diy equipment. Examining my daily needs i would be consuming about 2-3 m^3 of NG worth of energy daily.

A fridge compressor that can go up to 20 bars and a scooba tank of 30L will give me 600 liters or 0.6 m^3 of NG. It could also be stored in an air mattress. Which are in the ballpark of diesel substitution territory.

Will the hassle be worth it to save a liter of diesel every day be worth the hassle is the point i am considering.

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