Friends are ditching their gasser for an EV (Leaf? Volt?) Update: Bolt!

[MetroMPG]

Good point. But now they're saying the earliest Bolt deliveries won't be until early 2017.

I'll mention that to them.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

He and his wife are considering replacing their aging pair of cars with an EV for local use and a midsize manual shift pickup truck for odd jobs and highway trips.

If they do many highway trips (and don't plan to haul trailers &c), I'd suggest going with the Volt and getting an older pickup for the odd jobs and rough dirt roads. Though I've never sat in a Volt, I would bet that it's going to be far more comfortable on a long trip than a pickup - in addition to getting a lot better mpg.

[redpoint5]

I'd take a Prius over a Volt. It's has more utility and better highway MPG. The whole point of having a larger battery and electric motor is to eliminate the complexity and expense of an ICE. No way would I own something that is compromised as an EV, and compromised as an ICE.

My combo would be a Leaf for around town, and a Prius for the highway. I'm doing all of my hauling these days with my Prius and a trailer.

[freebeard]

So they are going to buy new? When the deal of the century is a 2-year-old off-lease Nissan Leafs?

You should be able to get 2014s with the heat pump now — not that I've checked.

Then they could watch developments that will radically change the whole market in the next two years, like solid state electrolytes.

[California98Civic]

Originally Posted by freebeard

... like solid state electrolytes.

Interesting... Solid electrolytes open doors to solid-state batteries

... brings me back to a fantasy about an EV again. Here is a noob question: how adaptable would a car like a Gen1 Volt be to such a battery? Would the charging hardware or software(?) need changes? Would the car be in capable of running? In short, is it more like 93 octane versus 87 octane, or like gasoline versus diesel?

[Daox]

Its somewhere in between, but closer to gas vs diesel. The BMS systems on the cars are very particular about how they manage the batteries to ensure maximum life and performance. If you change out to another chemistry, the BMS has no idea what is going on and will most definitely freak out unless the new chemistry acts virtually the same as the old which is highly unlikely. However, it is possible because the BMS is just looking for specific signals, and if you can fake those signals you can do whatever you want. Its just a lot of work to do all that. Guys have done it though. There are 1st gen Insights with lithium ion packs in place of the NiMh OEM pack. The BMS must be spoofed to do this, but it does work quite well once its all in place from what I've read.

[freebeard]

In short, is it more like 93 octane versus 87 octane, or like gasoline versus diesel?

Different to both.

At bottom, it's about electrons and the holes where electrons aren't. Each cell chemistry has characteristics like voltage, current, sag, etc. The cells are arrayed in batteries. The battery in turn has an operating voltage range, power capacity, etc. The chargers, controllers and inverters will have their own characteristics.

Bucking and boosting means you can delver higher or lower voltages than the source. You can mix and match OEM components within reason. With CAN bus messaging.

Edit: I just discovered the EVTV Friday Show Index. Here's the episode where they talk about salvaging the battery pack out of a Kia Soul (best power density going). It's going to power a Tesla motor in an AC Cobra.

EVtv The "Friday Show" Index: January 29, 2016

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

The whole point of having a larger battery and electric motor is to eliminate the complexity and expense of an ICE.

Huh? The whole point of an EV, or a hybrid, is to burn as little fossil fuel as possible. So the Volt (or other cars with similar design) lets you do that while still having the ability to make long trips.

As for having Leaf & Prius? Sure, if you like paying twice the registration, taxes, & insurance - not to mention initial cost of a second newish car.

I'm doing all of my hauling these days with my Prius and a trailer.

That works if you don't haul that much weight, and do it on fairly good roads. Otherwise not.

[vskid3]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

That works if you don't haul that much weight, and do it on fairly good roads. Otherwise not.

That's kind of the point, though. Metro's neighbor is thinking of getting a Frontier, and if he's like most truck owners, the most heavy duty hauling it'll do is a couple bags of mulch and a tree from Home Depot. Almost any car could tow what you could put in the back of a Frontier. If someone hauls a horse trailer to the top of the Rockies, a 1 ton truck makes sense. For most people, though, a Harbor Freight trailer and a hitch for their car could handle almost all of their bulky/heavy hauling needs.

[MetroMPG]

Originally Posted by freebeard

So they are going to buy new? When the deal of the century is a 2-year-old off-lease Nissan Leafs?

Yup, I mentioned this to them as well.

1 new EV + 1 new pickup is not an exercise in saving money. (I'm pretty sure they can afford to play.)