Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Fossil Fuel Free
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 08-25-2016, 12:51 PM   #11 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 22,513

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 52.71 mpg (US)

Even Fancier Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 70.75 mpg (US)

Appliance car - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage ES (base)
90 day: 60.16 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,058
Thanked 6,957 Times in 3,602 Posts
Good point. But now they're saying the earliest Bolt deliveries won't be until early 2017.

I'll mention that to them.

__________________
Project MPGiata! Mods for getting 50+ MPG from a 1990 Miata
Honda mods: Ecomodding my $800 Honda Fit 5-speed beater
Mitsu mods: 70 MPG in my ecomodded, dirt cheap, 3-cylinder Mirage.
Ecodriving test: Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 08-25-2016, 01:37 PM   #12 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 5,209
Thanks: 225
Thanked 811 Times in 594 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
He and his wife are considering replacing their aging pair of cars with an EV for local use and a midsize manual shift pickup truck for odd jobs and highway trips.
If they do many highway trips (and don't plan to haul trailers &c), I'd suggest going with the Volt and getting an older pickup for the odd jobs and rough dirt roads. Though I've never sat in a Volt, I would bet that it's going to be far more comfortable on a long trip than a pickup - in addition to getting a lot better mpg.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2016, 02:54 PM   #13 (permalink)
Human Environmentalist
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,397

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 24.19 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 26.68 mpg (US)

Chevy ZR-2 - '03 Chevrolet S10 ZR2
90 day: 17.14 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,192
Thanked 4,380 Times in 3,354 Posts
I'd take a Prius over a Volt. It's has more utility and better highway MPG. The whole point of having a larger battery and electric motor is to eliminate the complexity and expense of an ICE. No way would I own something that is compromised as an EV, and compromised as an ICE.

My combo would be a Leaf for around town, and a Prius for the highway. I'm doing all of my hauling these days with my Prius and a trailer.
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2016, 04:25 PM   #14 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 27,562
Thanks: 7,738
Thanked 8,554 Times in 7,041 Posts
So they are going to buy new? When the deal of the century is a 2-year-old off-lease Nissan Leafs?

You should be able to get 2014s with the heat pump now — not that I've checked.

Then they could watch developments that will radically change the whole market in the next two years, like solid state electrolytes.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to freebeard For This Useful Post:
California98Civic (08-25-2016)
Old 08-25-2016, 06:33 PM   #15 (permalink)
Cyborg ECU
 
California98Civic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Coastal Southern California
Posts: 6,299

Black and Green - '98 Honda Civic DX Coupe
Team Honda
90 day: 66.42 mpg (US)

Black and Red - '00 Nashbar Custom built eBike
90 day: 3671.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,373
Thanked 2,172 Times in 1,469 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
... like solid state electrolytes.
Interesting... Solid electrolytes open doors to solid-state batteries

... brings me back to a fantasy about an EV again. Here is a noob question: how adaptable would a car like a Gen1 Volt be to such a battery? Would the charging hardware or software(?) need changes? Would the car be in capable of running? In short, is it more like 93 octane versus 87 octane, or like gasoline versus diesel?
__________________
See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.



  Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2016, 07:16 PM   #16 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Daox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 11,203

CM400E - '81 Honda CM400E
90 day: 51.49 mpg (US)

Daox's Grey Prius - '04 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 49.53 mpg (US)

Daox's Insight - '00 Honda Insight
90 day: 64.33 mpg (US)

Swarthy - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage DE
Mitsubishi
90 day: 56.69 mpg (US)

Daox's Volt - '13 Chevrolet Volt
Thanks: 2,501
Thanked 2,585 Times in 1,553 Posts
Its somewhere in between, but closer to gas vs diesel. The BMS systems on the cars are very particular about how they manage the batteries to ensure maximum life and performance. If you change out to another chemistry, the BMS has no idea what is going on and will most definitely freak out unless the new chemistry acts virtually the same as the old which is highly unlikely. However, it is possible because the BMS is just looking for specific signals, and if you can fake those signals you can do whatever you want. Its just a lot of work to do all that. Guys have done it though. There are 1st gen Insights with lithium ion packs in place of the NiMh OEM pack. The BMS must be spoofed to do this, but it does work quite well once its all in place from what I've read.
__________________
Current project: A better alternator delete
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2016, 08:27 PM   #17 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 27,562
Thanks: 7,738
Thanked 8,554 Times in 7,041 Posts
Quote:
In short, is it more like 93 octane versus 87 octane, or like gasoline versus diesel?
Different to both.

At bottom, it's about electrons and the holes where electrons aren't. Each cell chemistry has characteristics like voltage, current, sag, etc. The cells are arrayed in batteries. The battery in turn has an operating voltage range, power capacity, etc. The chargers, controllers and inverters will have their own characteristics.

Bucking and boosting means you can delver higher or lower voltages than the source. You can mix and match OEM components within reason. With CAN bus messaging.

Edit: I just discovered the EVTV Friday Show Index. Here's the episode where they talk about salvaging the battery pack out of a Kia Soul (best power density going). It's going to power a Tesla motor in an AC Cobra.

EVtv The "Friday Show" Index: January 29, 2016

Last edited by freebeard; 08-25-2016 at 08:38 PM..
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to freebeard For This Useful Post:
California98Civic (08-25-2016)
Old 08-26-2016, 12:50 AM   #18 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 5,209
Thanks: 225
Thanked 811 Times in 594 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
The whole point of having a larger battery and electric motor is to eliminate the complexity and expense of an ICE.
Huh? The whole point of an EV, or a hybrid, is to burn as little fossil fuel as possible. So the Volt (or other cars with similar design) lets you do that while still having the ability to make long trips.

As for having Leaf & Prius? Sure, if you like paying twice the registration, taxes, & insurance - not to mention initial cost of a second newish car.

Quote:
I'm doing all of my hauling these days with my Prius and a trailer.
That works if you don't haul that much weight, and do it on fairly good roads. Otherwise not.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2016, 01:21 PM   #19 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
vskid3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Utah
Posts: 975

Civic DX (sold) - '97 Honda Civic DX
90 day: 34.15 mpg (US)

GTO (sold) - '04 Pontiac GTO
90 day: 22.62 mpg (US)

Green Brick (sold) - '06 Ford Escape Hybrid
90 day: 31.93 mpg (US)
Thanks: 193
Thanked 312 Times in 221 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesqf View Post
That works if you don't haul that much weight, and do it on fairly good roads. Otherwise not.
That's kind of the point, though. Metro's neighbor is thinking of getting a Frontier, and if he's like most truck owners, the most heavy duty hauling it'll do is a couple bags of mulch and a tree from Home Depot. Almost any car could tow what you could put in the back of a Frontier. If someone hauls a horse trailer to the top of the Rockies, a 1 ton truck makes sense. For most people, though, a Harbor Freight trailer and a hitch for their car could handle almost all of their bulky/heavy hauling needs.
__________________


Camry Thread
E-Bike Thread
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2016, 02:05 PM   #20 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 22,513

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 52.71 mpg (US)

Even Fancier Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 70.75 mpg (US)

Appliance car - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage ES (base)
90 day: 60.16 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,058
Thanked 6,957 Times in 3,602 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
So they are going to buy new? When the deal of the century is a 2-year-old off-lease Nissan Leafs?
Yup, I mentioned this to them as well.

1 new EV + 1 new pickup is not an exercise in saving money. (I'm pretty sure they can afford to play.)

__________________
Project MPGiata! Mods for getting 50+ MPG from a 1990 Miata
Honda mods: Ecomodding my $800 Honda Fit 5-speed beater
Mitsu mods: 70 MPG in my ecomodded, dirt cheap, 3-cylinder Mirage.
Ecodriving test: Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to MetroMPG For This Useful Post:
freebeard (08-26-2016)
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com