Gas prices in 2012? At least $4?

[Frank Lee]

That they dwell in trailers is a fact. That they are dumb is also an inescapable conclusion when the facts are examined. There is no brainwashing, misinformation, or sensationalizing in saying those things either.

Of course what you say about people needing to find things out for themselves is absolutely true; that preaching to them won't work. I'm not preaching to them because I'm fully aware of the futility of it. I'm venting to people who have a much higher than average interest in this topic. It could be I have gone on about it enough and am largely repeating myself ad nauseum. But I like to vent.

Do you agree we have adequately identified the major energy problems we are facing and also the major steps we can take to address them?

Do you agree that the vast majority of people don't give a rat's ass about it unless and until they physically can't afford it?

Do you agree that being proactive in implementing some changes will be far less painful a correction to make than being reactive as the majority are and waiting until making necessary changes involves some real pain and sacrifice?

Do you agree that you are just as guilty of sermonizing and being judgemental as you say I am?

[Ladogaboy]

Originally Posted by Olympiadis

A way would have to be devised to use true incentives (not punishments) to encourage a social change like this.

In my opinion, this sounds a lot like you are wanting to have your cake and eat it too. The fact of the matter is, people ARE being given an incentive to use gasoline over any other energy source in terms of transportation. The only thing is, we are paying it through taxes, not directly at the pump. And that disconnect is more than most Americans can compute.

If the playing field truly were level, Americans would be paying ~$8-9/gallon and several hundred dollars less per year in taxes. Granted, to continue leveling the field, you'd have to take away the $7,500 tax credit for EVs, but that just means that the MIEV, Leaf, and Volt would be slightly more expensive than their gasoline counterparts. Of course, if demand for EVs increased, the volume of sales would quickly make up for the gap left by the tax credit.

[Ladogaboy]

Originally Posted by Olympiadis

Even with a best case scenario, a weakened economy leaves us more vulnerable to aggression around the world (think militarily), and that is unlikely to be good for anyone. Europeans remember the lessons of WWII better than we do.

The last time the United States was under threat of invasion, our navy comprised wooden sailing ships. We are under NO threat of foreign invasion, and it doesn't take a military genius to figure out that if we were under threat of foreign invasion, the last place we'd want half of our armed forces is on the other side of the globe.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

That they dwell in trailers is a fact. That they are dumb is also an inescapable conclusion when the facts are examined.

True. Not that there is necessarily anything wrong with living in a trailer. (Where I grew up, trailers were upscale housing.) There are plenty of equally dumb people living in McMansions, and driving Escalades & BMWs.

The real difference between the two is that the McMansion dwellers don't really have any reason to whine about the cost of gas, as it's a small fraction of their income (or at least their income before they went in hock to buy the McMansion & Escalade), and they presumably have the capital to do something about it. But of course they whine anyway :-(

[redneck]

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8WRe...layer_embedded

>

[Olympiadis]

Redneck, that is exactly right.

[Ladogaboy]

I agree with everything except the $0.75 increase in order for oil to stabilize with its average price. That is an assumption based on oil and gold increasing in value at the same rate, but the demand for those two commodities is driven by different factors. Gold increases in price whenever there is relative economic uncertainty, like now. That is not necessarily the case with oil.

What is true, though, is the USD isn't worth a whole heck of a lot, so both oil and gold are going to keep costing more USD until that problem is addressed.