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Old 11-03-2014, 08:02 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P-hack View Post
I don't know what that would possibly be based on. it has two motor/generators and they are pretty much always either motoring or generating or both. With the power split driveline you are always using electrical power, car won't move on the ICE alone.
Yes, but at speed the MG is only really acting as a kind of ratio multiplier. It might be spinning but it's not really providing motive power at that point. The 20% is just a guess at the time the MG is providing the bulk of the motive power.

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Old 11-03-2014, 08:41 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Our government is less car minded than the USA government because the people who live here are less car minded.
Our public transportation system is quite extensive and intensive (we have the highest per mile rail use in the world).
Utrecht, the city that wants to ban old diesel cars, is the biggest rail hub.
Not having a car makes more sense over here.
Depending on your situation of course.

I too doubt using a Prius as an EV would cause issues. Especially if you don't overdo it and keep the speed low in EV mode. It would void whatever warranty is on the car though.

For practicality the second gen Prius is more suitable as the rear seats fold down and the boot is not small even with the seats upright. It is more economical and a better car, though less reliable than the 3rd gen.
Planetaire did a succesful EV conversion on the 2nd gen Prius.
Budget may be a problem, prices start at €5.5 K for a 10 year old high miler.

If budget allows I can recommend the 2nd gen Insight; comparable to the 2nd gen Prius in practicality and FE but cheaper to own.
The "Consumentenbond" tested it as the most reliable smaller midsize car on sale.
It is newer; prices start at €6.5 K for a 5 year old high miler.

It is less suitable for a EV conversion then the Prius as it has the motor bolted to the crankshaft so the engine always turns over adding some drag in EV ('D'FCO) mode.
But a constant surge of EV support will reduce the fuel usage greatly anyhow.
PM me if you like to test a parallel battery pack out on my Insight
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Old 11-03-2014, 03:50 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDevil View Post
Our public transportation system is quite extensive and intensive (we have the highest per mile rail use in the world).
And expensive, haha. (per km, I pay slightly less for my car. And I can totally bring extra passengers for the same price.
And I get there in half the time in my car (door-to-door).
And I can carry large/heavy luggage, I don't feel like carrying several toolboxes and boxes of material in public transport, thats why I have a car in the first place. (to take those items to my work locations.)
And I can travel between midnight and 6 am.
And in my car I don't have to share my legroom with others.
Etc.. (Yeah, I really don't like public transport anymore..)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDevil View Post
Utrecht, the city that wants to ban old diesel cars, is the biggest rail hub.
True, but still, I'd rather not carry lots of cargo on foot/public transport.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDevil View Post
Not having a car makes more sense over here.
Depending on your situation of course.
Certainly makes more sense to not have a car compared to the USA, but theres still plenty of people with a car. And I wouldn't go back to the public sardine tins for the world.

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Originally Posted by RedDevil View Post
I too doubt using a Prius as an EV would cause issues. Especially if you don't overdo it and keep the speed low in EV mode. It would void whatever warranty is on the car though.
Well, warranty is not the issue on a 10-14 year old car, since its already long expired.
The real question is, is the car practical enough? Worth the possible extra expenses? Reliable enough? And I'm getting a "no"s and "maybe"s on those questions so far, with more support towards electrifying a different car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDevil View Post
For practicality the second gen Prius is more suitable as the rear seats fold down and the boot is not small even with the seats upright. It is more economical and a better car, though less reliable than the 3rd gen.
Planetaire did a succesful EV conversion on the 2nd gen Prius.
Drivetrain between Gen 1 and Gen 2 is the same though, just different body style (the gen 2 is is slightly better for aero).
Planeraire is the one who inspired me in the EV direction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDevil View Post
Budget may be a problem, prices start at 5.5 K for a 10 year old high miler.
Indeed, and thats pretty much out of my reach financially. I'm willing to spend about 2k~2.5k on the car, then an additional 2.5k to 5k for batteries.
Currently working on filling a jar with money, and obtaining cheap used laptop batteries to assemble into a pack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDevil View Post
If budget allows I can recommend the 2nd gen Insight; comparable to the 2nd gen Prius in practicality and FE but cheaper to own.
The "Consumentenbond" tested it as the most reliable smaller midsize car on sale.
It is newer; prices start at 6.5 K for a 5 year old high miler.
Still well out of my price range though. But sounds good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDevil View Post
It is less suitable for a EV conversion then the Prius as it has the motor bolted to the crankshaft so the engine always turns over adding some drag in EV ('D'FCO) mode.
I always wondered though, what would happen if I buy 2-3-4 extra of those IMA motors, stack them all together instead of the engine, and built a bracket to the stock motor mount, custom controller, an a pile of batteries... Bit pricy though, those aren't cheap motors..

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDevil View Post
But a constant surge of EV support will reduce the fuel usage greatly anyhow.
Thats always nice, and using a plugin pack like that was 1 of my 3 hybrid based options. (stock hybrid, modified with a "small" pack to have constant assist and get very low fuel consumption, or a bigger battery and rip out the engine to make it tax-exempt, saving something like 624/year in tax alone, which is nice to offset the battery writeoff cost.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDevil View Post
PM me if you like to test a parallel battery pack out on my Insight
I might, I might. First I gotta build the pack though..
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Old 11-03-2014, 04:09 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtamiyaphile View Post
Yes, but at speed the MG is only really acting as a kind of ratio multiplier. It might be spinning but it's not really providing motive power at that point. The 20% is just a guess at the time the MG is providing the bulk of the motive power.
The PHEV Prius has no changes to the motors vs the hybrid verson and it propels the car just fine up to speeds of 62 mph. That is on the 3rd gen after they downsized the HSD twice. The whole system is also liquid cooled. I'd wager it can handle it.
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Old 11-03-2014, 05:10 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I did some research, the 3nd gen prius drivetrain is slightly different, they added a gear reduction that made sure the motor generator on the engine side didn't over-rev (the limiting factor in EV-only speed in the gen1 and gen2 Prius), which did raise the electric-only top-speed. They also got rid of the chain drive.
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Old 11-03-2014, 05:16 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Not to hijack, but that's unfair to do retrograde bans like that. Weren't a lot of European governments promoting diesel cars as late as the 90s for their fuel efficiency?
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Old 11-03-2014, 05:28 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderB View Post
I did some research, the 3nd gen prius drivetrain is slightly different, they added a gear reduction that made sure the motor generator on the engine side didn't over-rev (the limiting factor in EV-only speed in the gen1 and gen2 Prius), which did raise the electric-only top-speed. They also got rid of the chain drive.
That is true, and that will actually increase the amperage draw of the motors (for the same acceleration rate). More amps = more heat, and it handles it fine.
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Old 11-03-2014, 05:41 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I wonder, would a 3nd gen drivetrain fit in a 2nd or 1st gen Prius? Would the electronics freak out because of the different drive ratio's?

Quote:
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Not to hijack, but that's unfair to do retrograde bans like that. Weren't a lot of European governments promoting diesel cars as late as the 90s for their fuel efficiency?
Yes, yes it is very unfair.. Getting pretty sick of this ****, government forcing retroactive rule changes for reasons like "bad economy", "terrorism" and "the environment".
Especially if they've been promoting something, then suddenly turning around and banning it. Luckily its just 1 city center for now. We'll see how bad it gets in the future.

Nothing else I can do, except leave to a different country. But where?
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Old 11-03-2014, 05:51 PM   #19 (permalink)
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@AlexanderB

The only plug-in I have seen on the gen 1 prius is the enginer kit.
For exemple this one
This system may have serious overheating problem in the dc-dc converter.
They use 48v battery and the converter have a lot of job to do, with high amperage in the low voltage side.
They have small power and not regen capability. So you cannot drive in "high" speed during a reasonnable time in ev.

On the gen 1 a good thing is that there is no boost converter between battery and the MG.
But the gen 1 can power a turtle light on the dashboard. I suppose because heating limitations.
This society seems selling an enginer system. I don't know if the quality is good or bad.

The gen 2 have a boost-converter that can handle 22-25kW and peak over 30kW. This is the main power limitation in ev mode. But there is not heating problem in 100% ev mode. The maximum electric power is when using MG1, MG2 and battery, so 33+50+22kW, then in hybrid mode which everybody use.
The MG and electronic components are water cooled via an electric variable speed pump.

The speed limitation without spinning the engine is near 110 km/h. This is MG1 limitation.

Removing the engine in a prius 2 have been made but is it legal in your country ?.

In Netherlands, for the gen 2 prius, you have some info here

You probably know this forum
They talked about the NicoAep system

Maybe you can also find old ev car like 106, kangoo and saxo ?
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Old 11-03-2014, 06:06 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I can think of two times that Toyota began offering options that contradicted previous statements. The first was that solar panels were not cost effective and the second was that the batteries were not designed for electric-only use and that using them in that fashion would cause them to degrade quickly.

I believe the argument that changed their minds was "Take my money."

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