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Old 11-03-2014, 06:36 PM   #21 (permalink)
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The NiMH batteries they used at first degrade relatively quickly if you keep charging and discharging them fully on a regular basis.
That's why the plug-in Prius uses lithium.
They did not change their mind, they changed the chemistry.

one advantage of the 2nd gen Insight is the lower voltage on the pack; see http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/hev/batteryinsight1748.pdf.
A parallel pack of about 117 Volt would do, no DC-DC conversion needed just 36 LiFePO4 cells in series.
That could be split into 3 '36V' packs or 9 '12V' subpacks and have standard 36V or 12V chargers per subpack.
Using lithium, 32 cells would do too, which can be split into any power of 2 sized number of subpacks.

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It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law.

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Old 11-03-2014, 07:39 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by planetaire View Post
The only plug-in I have seen on the gen 1 prius is the enginer kit.
For exemple this one
This system may have serious overheating problem in the dc-dc converter.
They use 48v battery and the converter have a lot of job to do, with high amperage in the low voltage side.
They have small power and not regen capability. So you cannot drive in "high" speed during a reasonnable time in ev.
Sounds like its not really worth spending a lot of money on. I plan on using my own design, so it would hopefully work better.

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On the gen 1 a good thing is that there is no boost converter between battery and the MG.
So you can push more electric power in?

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But the gen 1 can power a turtle light on the dashboard. I suppose because heating limitations.
Also for when you run out of battery, and the car has to push the engine hard to drive MG1 just to power MG2. It becomes a lot slower without 20~30kw of battery powered boost.

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The gen 2 have a boost-converter that can handle 22-25kW and peak over 30kW. This is the main power limitation in ev mode. But there is not heating problem in 100% ev mode. The maximum electric power is when using MG1, MG2 and battery, so 33+50+22kW, then in hybrid mode which everybody use.
The MG and electronic components are water cooled via an electric variable speed pump.
Interesting. On only 22-33kw its obviously not going to be very fast though, I drive a car with 44kw and 2/3 the weight, and I think it slow above 80 kmh.
Removing the engine, welding the planet gears, and also driving MG1 might add some extra power for use as an EV only.

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The speed limitation without spinning the engine is near 110 km/h. This is MG1 limitation.
Oh, thats a lot more, I though it was 90 km/h for the gen1 / gen2, and 110 for the gen3.

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Removing the engine in a prius 2 have been made but is it legal in your country ?.
That would be legal, the electric drive system is already in place and approved for road use, so no problem there.

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This society seems selling an enginer system. I don't know if the quality is good or bad.
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In Netherlands, for the gen 2 prius, you have some info here

You probably know this forum
They talked about the NicoAep system
Not yet, I'll read into it.

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Originally Posted by planetaire View Post
Maybe you can also find old ev car like 106, kangoo and saxo ?
Those were never sold here, but I could import one from France if I wanted.. Theres a few on leboncoin.fr but most are still somewhat expensive for a car with a 90 km/h top speed and 80 km range.

They might be ideal candidates for boosting them a bit though, adding range and power after the car is been approved for road use is not so hard, and replacing the wet cell nickel batteries with lithium should reduce the weight while adding capacity and power. Even completely upgrading it to an AC motor is possible, nobody cares, as long as it passed the initial inspection once, all they check later is safety stuff (brakes, tires, lights, rust, window wipers, etc..)
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Old 11-04-2014, 03:24 AM   #23 (permalink)
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...So you can push more electric power in?
You could in the gen 1, but the hybrid computer logic decide how many will be used. I don't know as much the gen 1 then the gen 2 but the ev power must be lower, the car is lighter too.

In my plugin I use a device called bms+ that increase the Nimh Soc and then the Hsd want to use more electricity. So you can use very bigger battery then the stock nimh.

Quote:
Interesting. On only 22-33kw its obviously not going to be very fast though, I drive a car with 44kw and 2/3 the weight, and I think it slow above 80 kmh.
I have done testing before adding aero mods. A prius 2 use about 22kW at 130 km/h (81 mph) (This is the max speed allowed in France). So you could drive at this speed on a flat road, no wind, in ev. But you will have to wait a long time to reach this speed. At such a speed the cells will be depleted quickly.

The 22-25kW power limitation is a problem if you have to climb a hill and speed is "high". You have to be carrefull if using out of gas mode. In hybrid mode if you need more power the engine came and help the MG2 motor.

The prius are not ev cars. There are limitations. The main is not ev speed but ev power allowed. It can be used in ev mode keeping the ability to use engine if having a out of ev-range situation. It is a "low cost" solution. Gen 2 can be found at a good price. A diyer can add battery and some device like bms+ or orion bms.
Actually i have added gasoline in august. 3300 km later. I have drived more then 3100km in ev-only mode.

The gen 2 insight have less ev power and the engine is allways spinning.
There are losts in the cvt between MG and the whells.
In the gen2 prius when engine is spinning there is about 1.5kW losts. That is wy I love the out of gas mode, the engine is stopped.
It would be perfect adding say at least 10kW so 35 kW max ev.
The gen 3 plugin have 38kW ev power before adding engine. But the range is too small for me.

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Old 11-04-2014, 10:13 AM   #24 (permalink)
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For moving big loads, hire a van or truck. Unless you spend a lot of time moving big things, in which case I wonder that you're spending any time at all even considering a Prius.

As much as I like the Prius in general, I wouldn't consider a first-gen Prius in any case. They learned a lot with that first generation - which is to say, that first generation wasn't everything you could hope for. Second-gen and up, says I.

I find it very hard to believe that the government could make such rules that would effectively disallow the vehicle you already own. To make rules that would prevent you buying one as your next vehicle, that I can understand. But to obviate the ride you have in hand, well - that's not right. It's like outlawing a certain kind of shoe when that might be the only pair you own. You cannot go get new shoes because you don't have allowable shoes to wear while shopping.

There must be some kind of grandfather clause that would permit you to keep rolling in your existing car.
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Old 11-04-2014, 10:24 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Are they just going to crush all old cars? Would it be feasible to sell in another country?

This reminds me of the episode "Half a Life" From Star Trek: The Next Generation.
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Old 11-04-2014, 11:53 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Come on, they just rule out a type of vehicle in the city center. Some cities ban all vehicles. You can own them, just not have them in the city.

In the case of Utrecht you don't want to drive a car in the city center anyway unless you have to. Think medieval town, lots of canals and narrow passages, hardly any parking space and lots of people in the street.
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It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law.

When I drive a car I'm a driver. When I'm sitting on my couch I'm a biker.
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Old 11-04-2014, 02:25 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Are they just going to crush all old cars?
No, but they did offer people who live inside the city center and own a diesel car thats "too old" a $1500 discount on a new car if they crush their current ride..
Can't buy anything for that though, unless you put in a ton of cash yourself, so its kind of a hollow gesture.

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Would it be feasible to sell in another country?
It happens a lot, and they usually pay around market value, so its a good alternative to sending cars to the scrap for the regular $150 reward.
However, I don't think my car would be in demand, and certainly not for the amount of money its worth to me.

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This reminds me of the episode "Half a Life" From Star Trek: The Next Generation.
I have not seen that one I think..

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Come on, they just rule out a type of vehicle in the city center. Some cities ban all vehicles. You can own them, just not have them in the city.
Thats all fine and well, but:
1: I have to be there to install wireless acces points all over the city center, government paying our company to do that. I'll just borrow or rent a car to go there, I suppose.
2: they include the Jaarbeurs and some of the large acces roads, its not just the pedestrian-filled center.
3: It gets worse, theres apparently some roads that are one-way into the 'zone', with no way to turn around. So stop and go back against a one-way street or go into the zone to turn around and get fined 230 ($290) by an automated license plate scanner.

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In the case of Utrecht you don't want to drive a car in the city center anyway unless you have to.
I'll have to, work.

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Think medieval town, lots of canals and narrow passages, hardly any parking space and lots of people in the street.
Parking garages are a very usefull thing.
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Old 11-04-2014, 02:50 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I would demand a company car.
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Old 11-04-2014, 03:30 PM   #29 (permalink)
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No, but they did offer people who live inside the city center and own a diesel car thats "too old" a $1500 discount on a new car if they crush their current ride..
Can't buy anything for that though, unless you put in a ton of cash yourself, so its kind of a hollow gesture.
Does it need to be a brand-new car, or just one new enough? I would not expect many people go to from a car worth fifteen hundred dollars or less to a brand-new one, although I guess that my brother-in-law does. He drives his car until it falls apart and then my sister purchases him a new one.

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I have not seen that one I think..
They work with a scientist that is turning sixty and in his culture, in order to prevent burdensome old people, they put them to sleep.

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3: It gets worse, theres apparently some roads that are one-way into the 'zone', with no way to turn around. So stop and go back against a one-way street or go into the zone to turn around and get fined 230 ($290) by an automated license plate scanner.


The last time that I drove in the San Francisco area, I realized that I was approaching a toll bridge without any cash, and I there was not any way to turn around. They did not accept debit. I believe they told me to call the department before they issued the citation to get a discount.
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Old 11-04-2014, 05:04 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Does it need to be a brand-new car, or just one new enough? I would not expect many people go to from a car worth fifteen hundred dollars or less to a brand-new one
A brand new one, yes, so you see how thats really not helping people but makes the government sleep at night, because they offered people a 'fair deal', right?

The government here worked hard to root out "old" cars before, with a "cash for clunkers" type scheme where you could turn in any car you wanted to get a fixed $1.5k (I think) discount and the car was crushed. Completely emptied the market for sub 1k cars, because they all got bought up and scrapped by people who used them as discount coupons for the new car they wanted anyway. "Worked as intended", right?

Lots of perfectly fine cars went in the shredder. Oh well, can't save them all, I suppose. Made lots of cars into rare cars by shredding all but a hand full of them, including my own (only 7 or so left with this engine and 3 door body.)

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They work with a scientist that is turning sixty and in his culture, in order to prevent burdensome old people, they put them to sleep.
Ah, yes. Similar storylines also show up in other works of fiction.

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Originally Posted by Xist View Post
The last time that I drove in the San Francisco area, I realized that I was approaching a toll bridge without any cash, and I there was not any way to turn around. They did not accept debit. I believe they told me to call the department before they issued the citation to get a discount.
Yeah, exactly...

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