Getting the motor hot faster.

[RobertSmalls]

Originally Posted by comptiger5000

Cycling the water pump on and off is a BAD idea. The off cycles would have to be very short, and only at minimal to no throttle. Otherwise, you'd get hot spots around the cylinders, when the rest of the block is cold, and that could make for a warped or cracked block or cylinder heads.

Instead of turning the water pump completely off, you would want it to turn slowly. Just fast enough to prevent hot spots. That might actually be pretty fast, which could explain why electric water pumps haven't caught on.

Originally Posted by bgd73

never cover the radiator.. even my dad in his rig climbing through way below zero in northern maine learned a lesson on this..

never ever cover the radiator.

A grille block outperforms a radiator block, aerodynamically. But it's harder to execute, so cover 90% of the radiator in the winter if you don't have a grille block. When I do a radiator block, I cut a few small holes in the cardboard (or coroplast) so if the cooling fan does kick on (which it hasn't below 74mph), air can still flow through.

[mechman600]

Such a lack of understanding of something so simple.

The thermostat is located at the "last stop", the furthest point away from the water pump in the cooling system, where the coolant has absorbed the most potential heat. It serves one function: to make the decision of where to send the hot coolant - to the radiator and then the water pump inlet, or directly back to the water pump inlet. If the temp is below opening temp, this choice is to the water pump. At opening temp, the path to the radiator begins to open and the path directly to the water pump (bypass) begins to close. By 10F above opening temp, the bypass is fully closed and the path to the radiator fully open. The water pump never stops circulating coolant through the block. This is why your heater slowly starts to blow hot long before the thermostat opens. Block pressure only varies by water pump RPM, regardless of whether or not the thermostat is open or closed. This pressure can be as high as 40 psi at redline.

Putting a grill block does nothing except allow less heat to escape from the engine block itself. I'd say the difference will be barely noticeable if at all. All I would do it install a good OEM (reliable) thermostat, possibly a 190F or 200F if available, to make sure it is functioning properly. And maybe a block heater if that's your bag. A grill block will only help aerodynamics and make your engine overheat sooner.

[MARTINSR]

Thanks, I'll check it all out.

Brian

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by mechman600

Such a lack of understanding of something so simple.

I have been thinking about this comment and came to the conclusion that EVERYTHING about "ecomodding", "hypermiling" or what ever the terms, are pretty friggin simple! I mean, do we need a forum or web site to tell us to take our foot off the gas and brake, or to air up our tires, or to not stop and leave the engine running? I really don't think we do being it IS so simple.

Yet here we are discussing such things.

Brian

[Christ]

Originally Posted by mechman600

Such a lack of understanding of something so simple.

What exactly denotes how "simple" something is?

Do you have specific background and training in, say... aeronautics? Because I'd be willing to bet there's some arrogant flight instructor out there that supposes you're not too bright (the inference you made here) because you can't explain the location of the thrust control on a F-18.

What about the Geologist who thinks that volcanic flows and tectonic movement cycles are easy to understand?

If you didn't mean that as an insult, I'm sure I'm not the only one that read it that way...

[orange4boy]

If you really want to have the engine at operating temp the a circulation tank heater is your animal. Costs a but more then a block heater but is miles better at preheating. I have a 1500 watt model on my Prius, an 80% grille block, and an engine blanket to keep in the heat. I have an aftermarket temp gauge to keep an eye on things. 45 minutes to 70˚C which is the temperature at which the Prius shuts off the engine. I'm saving 5 minutes of warm up time and getting about 25% better FE on my short commute.

A grill block will only help aerodynamics and make your engine overheat sooner.

There are two distinct advantages to grille blocking:
1: Aero
2: Slightly faster warm up and heat retention once warm

Both increase efficiency.

My Prius has not overheated on me and plenty of others on this site will tell you that a grille block will not instantly make your car overheat. You should watch it though to see how your car reacts. My minivan has overheated only in warm weather up long hills but then I have a manual fan so that's my fault. Even with the block the fan cools it off quick.

On the Prius the T-stat is the lowest coolant point on the block and sits right beside the water pump.

[MARTINSR]

It ticks me off to think that I have had a few Prius "totals" (collision damage exceeded value of car) leave my bodyshop with a "thermos" on it! DARN IT, now it will be a friggin year before I see another I can grab.

I don't plan on making any big changes with the SHO, it is going to be sold as soon as my 59 Rambler motor is back in it (it's being rebuilt). When I get that car up and running I am going to go nuts with the mods.

I am going to look deeper in to a quick grille cover on the SHO though. And without a doubt be doing some testing on my way to work everyday with the coolent temps under different conditions.

Brian

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by Christ

What exactly denotes how "simple" something is?

Do you have specific background and training in, say... aeronautics? Because I'd be willing to bet there's some arrogant flight instructor out there that supposes you're not too bright (the inference you made here) because you can't explain the location of the thrust control on a F-18.

What about the Geologist who thinks that volcanic flows and tectonic movement cycles are easy to understand?

If you didn't mean that as an insult, I'm sure I'm not the only one that read it that way...

I am amazed at what I have learned here. It's like a lot of things in life, until you REALLY get into it you just don't understand how little you know compared to someone who has made it a passion before you.

Pro-sports for instance. You could think you know a lot about baseball and was a .400 hitter in highschool and college, walk up to the plate against a major league pitcher, even the lamest out of the bull pin and you will look like a friggin fool!

I have always practiced what I thought to be "hypermiling" for years I have watched people race to stop lights past me and laughed, thinking I knew so much. As it looks right now I am my first tank of gas since really getting into this site and I am looking at a MINIMUM 25% increase! TWENTY FIVE PERCENT!

You can quote me on this, I use it often at work.

"When working with the public, there are two things you need to remember. 1. The public is a bunch of ignorant morons. 2. YOU and I are one of them!"

In other words when we walk into a business to buy a product or service we know nothing about, we look just as stupid as the people who come into our place of work who know nothing. For God's sake, give them a break!

And by the way Mechman, my butt ain't hurt or anything. It really is no big deal and I thank you for your contribution to the discussion on the funtions of the water pump and thermostat.


Brian

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by mechman600

Putting a grill block does nothing except allow less heat to escape from the engine block itself. I'd say the difference will be barely noticeable if at all.

Experiment trumps theory. Get a car with a ScanGauge (so you can see exact temperature, rather than the ballpark estimate of most OEM "gauges"), try driving with and without radiator block, see how long it takes the engine to warm to operating temperature.

As I said above, it works in my Insight, but YMMV.

[MARTINSR]

Then of course is the fact that different cars may react different as well!

Brian