GM: the Chevrolet Volt is dead. Cancelled as of 2019

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

SUVs/trucks and large cars were the perfect platform for a plug-in hybrid.

The Volt came pretty close to ideal in this regard, but I'm wondering why Toyota still doesn't use the minimum size battery that qualifies for the full rebate amount in the Prime. They are leaving money on the table.

When asked they blather on about mass market price, knowing your audience, weight and the chassis not supporting the larger battery along with crash tests.

All this while the Prime has one less seat for a solar option they won’t sell that would qualify for solar rebates and wasted empty hatch space where the spare would but can’t because of design errors (that could also hold more battery)

[redpoint5]

I'm saying a smart company would have purpose built a plug-in hybrid from scratch instead of trying to shoehorn in everything into an existing platform. They could have made a ton of money because the battery is subsidized at over twice the actual cost to build.

The Pacifica has a 16 kWh battery and they shoehorned it into their regular Pacifica chassis by eliminating the ability to fold one row of seats into the floor.

Just imagine what would be possible if engineers had a blank slate rather than be told to cram everything into an existing mid-sized sedan.

I too was disappointed that the Prime removed the 5th seat. While I only use the 5th seat about once a year, it's still nice to have. At least don't put hard plastic in that area.

[NeilBlanchard]

Originally Posted by jjackstone

Wonder how long they'll continue making replacement batteries for the Volt.
JJ

Have you heard of anybody having the replace cells (let alone the pack)? I haven't.

Probably any replacements can be gotten from wrecked cars.

[jjackstone]

Not yet, but I only personally know one person with a Volt. IIRC the Volt pack is warrantied for eight years/100,000 miles. We are just getting close to that time window although I'm sure many people have exceeded the mileage limit. The thing is that these packs will die eventually and they will need replaced to still have the vehicle operating as designed. If I were putting a pack into my car I would want want one with a warranty and in a known good state. My guess would be that Chevy will license the technology to aftermarket companies to produce new packs for x amount of years. Again IIRC, a company has to support its vehicles for at least 7 years after it is manufactured.

All that said, I am still using the Lifepo4 packs from my Dewalt drill that I purchased in 2006. I know they are different chemistries. But I used the packs to power my electric bike for a couple years until they started getting a little tired. Still work fine in the drill.

Also I do have a Volt pack sitting in my garage waiting for me to get finished with my solar panel installation. Now that one was certainly out of a used vehicle and I hope it lasts for a very long time without need for replacement.
JJ

So funny. Now a couple hours after I wrote the main body of this reply I just read that Chevy has still not replaced any Volt battery due to degradation. A few have been replaced due to defects, but ZERO due to degradation.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

I'm saying a smart company would have purpose built a plug-in hybrid from scratch instead of trying to shoehorn in everything into an existing platform. They could have made a ton of money because the battery is subsidized at over twice the actual cost to build.

Manufacturers are consolidating platforms not adding new ones. Pretty much every major manufacturer is trying to get down to 3-4 platforms.

Manufacturers make no money from Federal or State tax credits. That money goes to the buyer. Even with the smaller tax credit the Prime version of the Prius is cheaper than the regular one but Toyota sells more regular models.

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Just imagine what would be possible if engineers had a blank slate rather than be told to cram everything into an existing mid-sized sedan.

Engineers are never given a blank slate because costs must be controlled.

[JSH]

The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act requires manufacturers to supply replacement parts while the warranty is in effect. For a hybrid batter that is 10 years.

However, they don't have to make them economical. A replacement battery for my Spark is $22,000. I'm betting they made one, set it on the shelf, and have fulfilled the legal requirement. It seems priced to guarantee that nobody will buy one.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by JSH

Manufacturers are consolidating platforms not adding new ones. Pretty much every major manufacturer is trying to get down to 3-4 platforms.

Manufacturers make no money from Federal or State tax credits. That money goes to the buyer. Even with the smaller tax credit the Prime version of the Prius is cheaper than the regular one but Toyota sells more regular models.




Engineers are never given a blank slate because costs must be controlled.

...and an EV platform could be 1 among the other 3.

Manufacturers still benefit from the tax credit because they can set the price higher knowing people will take advantage of it. Perhaps they set the price $5k higher than they otherwise would, and leave the $2,500 incentive to the buyer.

Explain the BMW i3 if engineers are never given a blank slate.

[MetroMPG]

^ Or the gen. 1 Insight, for that matter.

[JSH]

GM EV Platforms:

GM already has a dedicated EV platform. It is called BEV2 and underpins the Bolt. It will be superseded in 2021 by BEV3 which GM says will spawn 18 models by 2023.

The other platforms are:
Small FWD / AWD (Car / CUV)
Large FWD / AWD (Car / CUV)
Performance RWD / AWD (Car / CUV)
RWD SUV / Truck

BEV3 is a "skateboard" platform with no room for engines

Tax Credits:

Prius Prime: $27,350 - $4500 tax credit = $22,850 2018 sales - 27,595
Prius STD: $23,770 - $0 tax credit = $23,770 2018 sales = 49,534

The Prius Prime is cheaper after the tax credit but Toyota sold almost twice as many regular hybrids compared to the PHEV. Why do you think it would sell better if they stuck a larger battery in it and charged more?

Why did the regular Prius outsell the Prime even thought the Prime is cheaper after tax credits?

1. The average US family will not get the entire tax credit. A family of 4 needs to make about $90K pay enough in Federal Income Taxes to get the full $7500 credit. It is not refundable and cannot be taken over multiple years.
2. The sales price and monthly payment are based on the full price without the tax credit. Lots of people can't afford the higher payment hoping to get money back from Uncle Sam a year latter.

What about the I3 and original Insight:

I didn't work for either company so I'm guessing.

BMW i3. It is basically a large scale R&D project. BMW has been talking for years about making cars out of carbon composite. The i3 allowed them to make a low volume production car to test manufacturing techniques and get long term reliability data. It also works as a test mule for EV tech. The fact that they could meet C.A.R.B's EV mandate and avoid fines is a bonus. Going forward BMW has announced the i3 and i8 will be replaced by hybrid versions of their traditional cars starting in 2021.

Insight: It was 20 years ago, times have changed, and automakers are watching their costs much closer. Beyond that it was an Eco Halo car meant to showcase Honda's engineering talent. It was a production car and marketing rolled into one. It was also a commercial failure and was replaced with a 2nd generation built on the Fit platform.

Auto manufactures are looking to lean out their operations with the hopes of being one of the companies that survive the next decade. The big 4 are making 10 million cars a year and all of them are consolidating platforms to maximize manufacturing efficiency and drive down cost. The little guys have little hope of competing unless they are in a small but profitable niche or consolidate with other companies.