Green Grand Prix, Watkins Glenn, NY USA - April 20-21, 2012

[brucepick]

From the GGP Facebook page:

"The schedule has been revised and will be posted on the website soon: Registration for Friday, April 20 is at 10 A.M. (previously 9 A.M.)"

The Saturday driver registration is currently posted at 7:00 a.m. The Saturday rally runs 8:30-12:30 so I expect that registration time will stay as is, unless the Saturday event is pushed back in time.

[jime57]

I think I'm in

Looks like fun, interesting and a great opportunity to meet some of my internet hypermiling friends face-to-face. I have a modified 06 Honda Insight and would expect to run the modified class, since it would be rather difficult to get back to stock. Some questions:

1. One of my modifications is removal of the passenger seat, since it is never used. Would I qualify as "no passenger seat-no navigator," or must I reinstall the passenger seat and find a navigator?

2. My car has installed an electronic control device to manually control the operation of the electrical generator/motor portion of the hybrid - commonly referred to as a MIMA system. Can the MIMA device be used in the modified class, or must it be disabled?

3. Many components have been removed from my car in order to lower the car weight. Does this matter in the modified class?

4. Which turns had speed limits below the minimum average speed of 49 MPH?

5. I assume there is no passing in some/all turns. Correct?

Hope to see some of you folks there. It is awefully difficult to get together in such a widely dispersed special interest group and this looks like a great opportunity

[brucepick]

Originally Posted by jimepting

I think I'm in
... Some questions:

1. One of my modifications is removal of the passenger seat, since it is never used. Would I qualify as "no passenger seat-no navigator," or must I reinstall the passenger seat and find a navigator?

This definitely would be a question for Bob Gillespie of the GGP. Go to the GGP site, find 'contact us at' over on the left side, and email Bob. I could swear that I saw this year's info stating you'll absolutely need a navigator for the 2nd day's run. But I can't find it. Also it has to be registered and fully road legal this year.

Personally, I didn't want a navigator the first time I went, but I missed a turn and it cost me some. I'd replaced the navigator with some ballast. My second year, with the event run only on the Watkins Glen track, I was very glad to have my brother with me navigating and recording lap data using pen and paper. This year's run will be longer (3 hours, each of two days?) and having him there will be most welcome.

Originally Posted by jimepting

2. My car has installed an electronic control device to manually control the operation of the electrical generator/motor portion of the hybrid - commonly referred to as a MIMA system. Can the MIMA device be used in the modified class, or must it be disabled?

If modded, anything goes, as long as its within the SCCA competition rules. You can google for those, it's a huge .pdf of 732 pages. But there's a good index so it's possible to find stuff in there. I doubt there's anything that would apply to a MIMA there, unless it affects safety

There haven't been varying degrees of modded status at the GGP, in my experience. So my only concern is the guy showing up with one little mod that gives the car 0.5 mpg increase over stock, and he's competing against cars that are heavily modded and getting 50% over stock mpg. They would be classed together.

In my experience, the GGP has been operating on "If the entrant says it's modded, it's modded". Sooner or later they may have to start inspecting the cars for mods and for stealthy mods. IMHO, modding drivers are very proud of their work and tend to say so right out front.

Originally Posted by jimepting

3. Many components have been removed from my car in order to lower the car weight. Does this matter in the modified class?

As above, it wouldn't matter, based on my experience. But of course all your safety components have to be there. Has to be road legal too.

Originally Posted by jimepting

4. Which turns had speed limits below the minimum average speed of 49 MPH?

I think the first turn? But this year's rules could be different so you'd just have to "deal".

HOWEVER as I recall, the target lap speed last year was 45 mph so steady running over 49 isn't really feasible. It's a rally, so you do need to be close to the target speed.

Originally Posted by jimepting

5. I assume there is no passing in some/all turns. Correct?

Yup.

Originally Posted by jimepting

Hope to see some of you folks there. It is awfully difficult to get together in such a widely dispersed special interest group and this looks like a great opportunity

I agree completely. And the event seems to be evolving forward every year.

[jime57]

It's really still quite confusing, but I'm beginning to piece it all together. From the registration form, one can register for the Friday WGI 3 hr economy drive(I think it's an economy drive), or the Saturday TSD rally or both. Since the Friday WGI drive is an economy contest, I think, then there would not be a target speed, just an acceptable range of speeds, and potentially some corner speed limits.

I'm not sure whether a navigator is required for the Friday WGI run, since one is only driving for economy on a well defined circuit for multiple laps.

I guess I'm going to have to make the call. Rules for the TSD rally are probably the normal SCCA Rally rules, but the WGI economy run is an entirely different animal.

It would help if they would update the page and cite some rules for both contests. Guess I'm going to have to make the call

[brucepick]

I'm pretty sure it's all run under the SCCA umbrella - they have been the last two years, which is my experience time with the GGP. I'd say, write to Bob re. the questions you raised.

[JethroBodine]

Jim- on the pdf that Bruce posted, http://www.greengrandprix.com/about.pdf , they state "If your vehicle has two seats you must have a navigator."

I still don't know if I can make it to this one. I REALLY want to go. I'm looking at traveling on Thursday(6 hours or so) and returning on Sunday. Fingers crossed.

[sendler]

Read back through this thread and you should find links to threads from last year from people that were there from Insightcentral.net. The track day on Friday requires a final average speed between 49-54 mph and is a fuel economy contest as is the road rally on Saturday.
.
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Originally Posted by jimepting

It's really still quite confusing, but I'm beginning to piece it all together. From the registration form, one can register for the Friday WGI 3 hr economy drive(I think it's an economy drive), or the Saturday TSD rally or both. Since the Friday WGI drive is an economy contest, I think, then there would not be a target speed, just an acceptable range of speeds, and potentially some corner speed limits.

I'm not sure whether a navigator is required for the Friday WGI run, since one is only driving for economy on a well defined circuit for multiple laps.

I guess I'm going to have to make the call. Rules for the TSD rally are probably the normal SCCA Rally rules, but the WGI economy run is an entirely different animal.

It would help if they would update the page and cite some rules for both contests. Guess I'm going to have to make the call

[sendler]

Here is my latest email.
.
Dear Green Grand Prix folks,

Thank you to the many who have registered. Here is a quick look at the difference between Friday's Road Rally and the one on Saturday.
The Friday rally will have very simple instructions. You will drive around the track at the speeds you are instructed to and you will have certain stops you must make in the pits. We will fit each vehicle with a transponder. The event will last three hours.
The Saturday Rally will be a more typical Time-Speed-Distance Rally with checkpoints.The vehicles will start at the Watkins Glen International complex and go out onto public roads for about 100 miles. The route will involve a variety of driving conditions but all roads will be in very good repair and you will not be driving on any dirt roads. Your instructions will be more complicated than Friday's, It will definitely help to have a navigator for an extra set of eyes.
I will send out a set of General Instructions in early April.

There will be a set of awards for each rally and then overall awards for those who entered both stages. We will measure T-S-D driving accuracy and fuel economy.
I will send more information about our method of determining fuel economy later. Suffice it to say that we have several different categories and fuels, and we will not attempt to compare apples and oranges, so to speak. There are no easy, universally accepted conversion factors.We will most likely be using some different methods of measurement for certain categories. I'll send you more on this later.
Were just over a month away- again, don't hesitate to ask any questions.

Looking forward to seeing you here-

Bob Gillespie
Exec. Director Green Grand Prix Corporation (501C-3)
Welcome To The Official Green Grand Prix Web Site

[Gasoline Fumes]

I thought I'd start a new thread for this. How many EcoModder members are going?

I'll be there on Friday. Not entering, just showing up to see the cars.

[sendler]

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ril-20178.html