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Old 07-31-2008, 09:23 PM   #21 (permalink)
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It's not every person on this forum, just a few, not all of them are in this post.

As for the original post about someone selling their metro to get an SUV, who could really blame them? Which do you think has a survivability rate when involved in the same type of accident? A metro or SUV. Although it really doesn't say what kind. It could be a new tahoe that beats the camry for city mileage.

I know over on SUV.com there are many owners who total their suburbans and turn around and buy another one. There was one poster who put up pics of a wreck where his 2500 suburban was t-boned @ 55mph by an f150. the Truck driver ran a red light and didn't survive but, the posters wife and three kids walked away. Sometimes it's things like that which put driving a smaller, outdated (safety) car into perspective.

My take is that if it doesn't have airbags, I don't need to be driving it. It's more of safety technology that goes into the design of cars produced in recent years. Is it really worth a few mpgs? I have obtained very good mileage with my suburban and really don't fit into the stereotype of "SUV driver" like so many people portray. Does anybody here know what other GM platforms have interchangeable parts with a 2wd suburban?

If you look at pure efficiency, we are all hypocrites for even driving a vehicle. Unless it's charged by solar energy, we have room to improve.

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Old 07-31-2008, 09:34 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klrv6 View Post
. Although it really doesn't say what kind. It could be a new tahoe that beats the camry for city mileage.
.
Could you please provide SOME insight in to a Tahoe Getting better citty mpg than a Camry. I tried a worse case Camry vs Best Case Tahoe, and th Camry still won by 5 MPG.

Do you think that just because you say it up it makes it true?
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Old 07-31-2008, 09:52 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dremd View Post
Could you please provide SOME insight in to a Tahoe Getting better citty mpg than a Camry. I tried a worse case Camry vs Best Case Tahoe, and th Camry still won by 5 MPG.

Do you think that just because you say it up it makes it true?
http://www.chevrolet.com/hybrid/articles/index.jsp?id=6

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Old 08-04-2008, 07:42 PM   #24 (permalink)
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21, 22 MPG is "good"? Where? My Sherman tank used to get this "good"....
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Old 08-06-2008, 12:20 AM   #25 (permalink)
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21, 22 MPG is "good"? Where? My Sherman tank used to get this "good"....

Perhaps your sherman tank didn't have to pass emissions? It takes more fuel to get cars to burn cleaner in the US. People always forget that when looking back at mileage they used to get in "X" car. Bring that car in to a testing station today and they would be in for a surprise.
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Old 08-06-2008, 02:02 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by klrv6 View Post
Perhaps your sherman tank didn't have to pass emissions? It takes more fuel to get cars to burn cleaner in the US. People always forget that when looking back at mileage they used to get in "X" car. Bring that car in to a testing station today and they would be in for a surprise.
You are correct, of course. My "older" cars got better mileage than my newer cars DID ( they have since been MODified). The point I was attempting to make was ... it shouldn't take more gas to "clean up" the combustion of gasoline.
Efficiency is the name of this combustion game. If 100% efficiency is achieved, we still are left with a CO2 by-product of this combustion process...as well as the heat of combustion forming NOx ( similar to lightning forming NOx). CO is an indicator / measure of incomplete combustion, as is unburned HC.
This CO2 is a tough nut to crack. I am proposing C & O2, even though connected by a double bond, are both "re-combustable". C is carbon ( coal is C) and O2 supports combustion. It's the double bond which creates a "difficulty".
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Old 08-08-2008, 02:41 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klrv6 View Post
i call bs on that, besides my 98 taco have a 07 camry se i4 and a 06 tc.
the camry has the 18 inch trd wheels, with wider tires and my worst tank to date was 25 mpg. my to day best is 33 mpg, i do not hypermile this car i drive the hell out of it.

but yeah
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Old 08-08-2008, 03:09 AM   #28 (permalink)
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This thread is a little more emotionally "hot" than I would normally post on, but I could not resist.

I think that everyone has choices to make and individual concerns and tastes to consider. I feel that it is my patriotic duty to get the best FE I possibly can. Think about how much of our gas money ends up in the middle east and how little they like us and you will understand that point.

That being said I must admit that my wife and child only ride in the Buick. They do not ride in my Metro, nor do I have any intention of them doing so. I do, however, mod my wife's Buick to get the max FE possible.
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Old 08-08-2008, 07:03 AM   #29 (permalink)
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I happen to love the Highlander Hybrid. In fact, I'm trying to encourage the New England Collage Dept of Campus Safety to ask for a grant so that we can replace our Fix-or-repair-daily Excursion cruiser with a Toyota Highlander Hybrid. Yes, an SUV really does make sense for our safety department. The variety of duties and weather that we deal with make an SUV very convenient.
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Old 08-28-2008, 04:20 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Just to start off, I don't have any agenda behind this post, I do not have stock with the Honda Motor Corp. or any other company, and I'm not insisting on everyone running out and buying a new smaller car. I just wanted to post this info here, as I felt it's relevent to the discussion of SUVs vs. compact cars. Earlier this year I wrote a report for my college on how I feel SUVs should be banned from the roadways. I don't have all my sources still listed, but this info is still fresh in my head. If you don't believe me, or want clarification I can try to find my paper and find my sources, but most of this is common sense, or can be found by a simple Google search So here goes...

For those of you debating the SUV vs. Econobox safety issues, there are several key points you're all overlooking or not mentioning. First of all, most of the fatal accidents that occur involving motor vehicles are single car collisions (ie. skidding off the road into a ditch, hitting a tree, telephone post, etc) where having a 6000lb chunk of metal around you is not going to do any more help than a 3000lb chunk would. More so, most of the single car collisions are involving SUVs. Their large mass, high center of gravity, large tires, and poor overall design (when compared to cars or vans) all lead to being less able to stop before, manuver away from, or otherwise avoid a crash, and are therefore more susceptible to the laws of physics than safety features can provide. The next most common collision is the rear or side impact, where once again, having the ability to manuever or avoid an impact is severely reduced by driving an SUV. The least common of all accidents is the head-on crash, yet this is the reason most people buy large vehicles. Taking two objects of different masses, and smacking them into each other will result in the smaller object taking more damage than the larger object, but then again, the head-on crash is a very rare occurrence, and usually takes place at lower speeds, not highway speeds.

The most dangerous part of driving an SUV, however, isn't the clumsiness of it's handling or it's inability to avoid a collision, it's the high center of gravity that leads to rollover accidents. As I mentioned before, the most common collision is a single car crash, and when a vehicle goes off the side of the road, it has a high risk of rolling over. This is usually where most injuries and deaths occur in automotive collisions. Most cars and vans are lower to the ground and provide a lower center of gravity compared to SUVs. That means that a car or van involved in a single car collision is less likely to roll, and safer for the occupants. I can't say this as a fact though, as there are way too many variables with modern automotive engineering and safety equipment. We don't have the same designs of the 50s and 60s where more car = safety. That's why you can see so many different results from crash testing. However, a particular car that has similar design standards to a particular SUV (ie not 2007 Mercedes SUV vs. 1994 Chevy Cavalier) will be safer in a single car collision, and rollover avoidance.

Over the years, as the popularity of SUVs has increased (most notably in the 90s and more recently) and more SUVs have taken to the roadways, the number of automotive related fatalities has increased in a similar fashion. More SUVs = more deaths.

-More than four in ten Americans think they are safer in a sport utility vehicle (SUV) than in a regular car. (National Consumer Survey, Opinion Research Corporation, January 2005)
-In 2006 SUVs had the highest occupant fatality rate of any vehicle type in rollover crashes at 7.77 per 100,000 registered vehicles. This compares with 6.98 for pickup trucks, 3.10 for vans and 3.18 for passenger cars. (Insurance Information Institute)
-8,062 SUV occupants died in 2006. (Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, Highway Loss Data Institute)
Increase In SUV Rollover Deaths Prompts Call for Passage of Safety Provisions
SUV Deaths Up, Other Highway Deaths Down
(check out the National Highway Traffic Safety Association's website, and check out some of their reports. Namely "2007 Traffic Safety Annual Assessment -- Highlights" and
Latest Releases | National Highway Traffic Safety Administration(NHTSA) | U.S. Department of Transportation


Now that I'm through with my babbling, and I'm going to step down from my soapbox I'd like to include a personal note. I've crashed two cars in the past 3 years, a 2005 Chevrolet Maibu, and a 2004 Prius. I walked away from both accidents, and both times the cars were claimed as totaled. If I had been driving an SUV where I totaled my Malibu, I know I would have wound up in the hospital, there's no question about it. I was beaten up pretty bad, but it would have rolled for sure (and this spot is definatly not a place you would want to roll a vehicle ). When I crashed the Prius it actually rolled 3 times, but it's only because the car was sliding perfectly sideways before it even left the road, and the way the ditch was shaped made it flip over. Surprisingly though, the rollover felt rather smooth, and wasn't as scary as I thought rolling a car would be. I know had I been driving an SUV, with how large and boxy they are, the roll would have been much more violent and I don't think my fiance or I would have walked away from it. I now drive a Honda Civic day-to-day. My mother has an Explorer, and my brother just bought a Cadillac Escalade, and I don't feel safe whatsoever driving either one of them.

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Last edited by swoody; 08-28-2008 at 05:13 AM..
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