Has anyone done this BASIC water injection thing?

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by basslover911

From back in the 70's, where you get a canister, aquarium air stone, and some line and simply Tee it into a vacuum line. Its supposed to feed moist air and thus "water injecting" your car (which has its advantages if you already don't know).

Anyway, has anyone ACTUALLY done this? It seems SO cheap to do that I might try it and see what happens. I mean it literally is like $5 to do.

I want to see if anyone has done this and what they thought about it?

Everyone on the Subaru 360 forums that lives in hot areas does this and from what they say it works fine at keeping the motor cooler and running.

[ShadeTreeMech]

I wonder, I wonder.........

The Subaru 360 is an air cvooled 2 stroke IIRC.

What about using a water injection system to supplement engine cooling and downsizing the radiator? Or going without a radiator entirely on a smaller engine?

I wonder that an air cooled engine would be able to heat up faster without the drag of the water pump. And having the higher temperatures might instantly vaporize the water to steam and give a bit of additional thrust to the combustion cycle?

I like the premise of the 6 cylce engine, as well as the suprisingly consistent numbers from one type to another.

[Bicycle Bob]

The really old internal combustion engines had radiators made like fire-tube boilers, or else no radiator at all, just a water jacket intended to let the coolant boil off.

One thing to remember about trying to combine steam with ICE designs is that it takes ten or twelve square feet (~1 sq.m) of boiler area per HP, with apparatus designed for nothing else.

[ChazInMT]

Something else to keep in mind.....one of the main combustion gasses is Water Vapor....In fact you generate a gallon of water for every gallon of gasoline you burn. The water is already here in the system......why put in more???? And nothing discussed so far for injecting comes close to the amounts already produced. This fact alone leads me to seriously question any claims about it. Common sense. A gallon of water is produced in the engine every 30-40 miles (For most of us) How is adding a few drops going to help?

[Varn]

I made one for my Renault R5 in 1979. I was having problem with pinging. Water/alcohol injection has a history of cooling the engine and increasing power. I used windshield washer pump and triggered it via a latching relay and a vacuum solenoid driving a micro switch.

Once the engine was started I pushed the button to start the system. If the engine vacuum got low the pump would start. I used an Amal jet that screwed into the air box shooting a fine stream directly into the carb throat. If the engine would die I would turn the ignition off to drop off the latching relay so that the windshield washer fluid wouldn't flood the engine.

Perhaps my timing was too advanced. The car ran good for what it was.

At that time I had thought about a bubbler system but realized that it wouldn't be effective when my engine needed it, at near full throttle.
YMMV

[EdKiefer]

I have had some improvements with water injection on various vehicles .
On my 1974 Opel Manta that i turboed I used 2 systems one using boost pressure in a sealed tank to spray into the intake, right into the compressor wheel .same car I also had windshield wiper pump triggered off boost switch . The seal tank was better as the amount of water flow varied according to boost . this allowed a few more lb of boost on pump gas .Used to run around 12lb on 8.0 CR pistons .

The other vehicles used a varible speed module that would vary motor speed according to rpm and load. the spay was pointed right down into butterfly of carb (was a V6 2.8L GM -1980 era ). This alowed me to raise ignition timing to just slight ping with no water and with all fine .

Only downside is the jets over time need maintenance as they can get clogged .both vehicles were carbed . I have tried it on fuel injected engines with not as good gains , which I think is because of longer runners of fuel injected engines and how there routed .

You don't want water injected on light loads, you want it in general on mid to high loads, so entering a vacuum hose is bad IMO . You need it to spray with atomized spray pattern .

[max_frontal_area]

Originally Posted by EdKiefer

right into the compressor wheel

12 pounds in a manta - not bad
what kind of jet were you using. did your compressor wheel get pitted?
it is said they move at supersonic speeds and any object other than air
can cause damage to the vanes.
were you using tap water? distilled water should eliminate mineral deposits.

in FE engines you might find better sucess using water vapor instead of spray.

[EdKiefer]

Originally Posted by max_frontal_area

12 pounds in a manta - not bad
what kind of jet were you using. did your compressor wheel get pitted?
it is said they move at supersonic speeds and any object other than air
can cause damage to the vanes.
were you using tap water? distilled water should eliminate mineral deposits.

in FE engines you might find better sucess using water vapor instead of spray.

the jet comprised of just a brass hose barb with its end brazed up and drilled with a small numbers drill (It was long time ago the size I think was "around" 0.015-0.020" )
The turbo was Rajay size T03 with .25 exhaust housing (smallest at the time) . Never had problem with corrosion .

I did use tap water and with windshield fluid added to stop freezing .
The turbo was horizontal with my intake adapter basic 90 deg with a weber progressive 2 barrel carb . I am not sure the water spray was directly hit the wheel before hitting anything else but it was nice fine spray .
Without it I could only run around 10lb and back then there was 96 fuel .If I remember I was running 9.0 CR I later went to 7.5 forged turbo pistons cause had problems with top land cracking on cast pistons .

[basslover911]

I know that 6 stroke engine doesn't have a radiator since it depletes all of it's heat this way. What do you think will happen if you do the same but keep the engine 4 stroke?

Wouldn't it hurt more than help since when fuel is injected the piston is actually going up (and injecting steam will make the piston go DOWN thus counter forcing the piston?)

[ShadeTreeMech]

I wonder how hard it would be to have alternating fuel injection/water injection cycles and no radiator? Leave it working as a normal 4 stroke but every fuel injection cycle is followed with one with just water?

Or maybe this would enable the use of extremely lean burn? can we say 19:1 air/fuel?