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Old 12-08-2011, 05:41 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryland View Post
How about filling your heat storage tank with something like paraffin wax instead of water then having a closed coil of tubing in the wax, as I understand it paraffin wax holds a lot more heat in the phase change of going from a solid to a liquid and the temps that you are looking at seem about right for wax heat storage.
I also think that if there is space that it would be worth having the storage tank in the cabin of the car instead of in the trunk, that way any heat loss is heating and defrosting the inside of the car and the trunk has less insulation then the cabin.

I agree that using a phase change material would probably be a good idea but the phase change of paraffin takes place at too low a temperature (around 90 degrees F). I would look for something with a higher phase change temp.

Still, it's a great idea!

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Old 12-08-2011, 06:17 PM   #32 (permalink)
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"Heater valve" ?

Looking at that image, are you sure there's a OEM valve in the heater line? I haven't seen one in use for decades because of their tendency to fail (usually in the "closed" position) or leak coolant into the cabin. I've had various older cars which have done either or both (and no heat when there are snowdrifts around is "no fun")

Modern cars tend to use flaps to control airflow through/around the heater matrix. This means your "heater blocked" bypass setup is unlikely to be needed.

Thanks for posting the ideas though. I've been toying with something similar to achieve fast warmup of both the engine and its WVO feed.

Does the Prius suck water from the block to the thermos or does it simply use a larger water capacity?

(FWIW I've noticed that manufacturers have tended to try and reduce water capacity over the years and I always assumed it was to achieve faster warmup - less water = less specific heat and modern designs recover vented coolant rather than dumping it.
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Old 12-08-2011, 08:00 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Poor man's remote heater valve idea. Get an aftermarket heater valve, normally manually actuated via push/pull cable. Combine with an electric door lock actuator.

Many of those lock actuators use a 12V DC motor and rack and pinion gearing.
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Old 12-08-2011, 10:20 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Yeah I'm sure there is a valve. It's part of the heater matrix and I have actually removed it once to clean it up when it got stuck. The reservoir is not in the car right now, as I'm working on it. For the valve I'm using a vacuum solenoid from a old Pontiac. I'm not sure if its going to last long, but we'll see. Also I bought some larger diameter hose. I wish I could fit the reservoir in the engine bay.

The Prius reservoir looks cool. If i had the money and the time, I'd look into making a vacuum insulated canister, but styrofoam will have to do for now. I'm sorry I don't have any actual pictures of my system; like all of my mods it's not very well documented. I don't have a garage, and it's been snowing the whole week so my projects tend to move along quite slowly. I'll try to get pictures when I start working on the passive version.
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Old 12-09-2011, 01:26 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billyjones View Post
I agree that using a phase change material would probably be a good idea but the phase change of paraffin takes place at too low a temperature (around 90 degrees F). I would look for something with a higher phase change temp.

Still, it's a great idea!
High temp wax is available I think I bought some 80-90C stuff
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Old 12-09-2011, 04:23 AM   #36 (permalink)
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What a neat idea. I would let the cooling system pump do the work, and use something like a wafer check valve, that opens at quite low pressure, so would open when the engine is started & running (and coolant is flowing), and would not permit flow when it's not running, keeping the heated water in the hot water tank by preventing thermo siphoning. I get that the wax phase change is a good energy storage & retrieval system, but initially, just using water to prove the system, would work quite well as well. Good point about the expansion of the fluid. Either a coil and tank system, or just get a bigger coolant reservoir. I'd go for the larger reservoir because it's easier. insulating the whole engine might also be an option. something like Rockwool or Kaowool (mineral fibre lagging material) would work just fine. This would place a higher demand on the cooling system though, as the block itself is not being cooled directly.
so... What is your progress on this?
I like the idea of putting it in the cabin of the car, probably under the drivers seat! Could be a slightly warmer car in the morning. The plumbing would run through the firewall and inside the centre console.
Keep us posted on progress.
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Old 12-09-2011, 11:32 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demolite View Post
Yeah I'm sure there is a valve. It's part of the heater matrix and I have actually removed it once to clean it up when it got stuck.
OK. Sounds like the bypass is necessary then.

Quote:
The Prius reservoir looks cool. If i had the money and the time, I'd look into making a vacuum insulated canister, but styrofoam will have to do for now.
Thermos do some quite large containers for about $50-75 (nissan range for catering) They might be worth looking into but they won't take any pressure - using one as secondary heat store would work though. (phase change media and a coil of coolant plumbed through the lid springs to mind).
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Old 12-09-2011, 11:44 AM   #38 (permalink)
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High temp wax is available I think I bought some 80-90C stuff
Where? And is it flammable?
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Old 12-09-2011, 08:16 PM   #39 (permalink)
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What type of insulation are you going to use for the hot reservoir?
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Old 12-12-2011, 02:30 AM   #40 (permalink)
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There is a product that's a zero pressure product. You actually run a special radiator cap that allows direct venting to the overflow tank. The coolant is installed straight with NO water. its also essentially a lifetime product, Its used in some over the road trucks.

Its like 30 bucks a gallon. But if its permanent.......

While the wax has cool factor its going to raise the price, and you'll have the issue of how fast you can get the heat back out of it. A storage tank would be faster for quick warmup. (I think...)

Great idea !
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