HHO: Good, bad, or ugly?

[teknomage2012]

Well the fact of the matter is, that it is well proven that in a engine; that is introducing atomized liquid fuel to a compressed combustion chamber; bennifits from the introduction of a gaseous combustible. It improves the travel of the flame front ignighting the atomized droplets reducing the unburned hydrocarbons, and improving the torque and hp output.

the rub comes, in where the energy to produce the gaseous combustable comes from the crankshaft of the engine...

to truly bennifit from HHO one needs to take the waste heat from the coolant system and or the exhaust to generate the electricity to do the electrolosys. then the true bennifit will be dicernable...

take a look at the gluppity glup turbo diesel hybrid electric motorcycle on youtube. I am building it to do just this.

If you have a 100 hp engine, you have 100hp of waste heat exiting the radiator, and 100 hp of waste heat exiting the exhaust... that is 200hp, take one third of that waste energy like a combined cycle natural gas power plant and you would have a 160 hp car getting spectacular fuel mileage...

take a look into means of extracting the waste heat off the engine, like a rankine steam generator and or thermocouples to do this.

the debate will then become is it better to couple that electricity back to the crank shaft directly using an electric drive or use it to electrolyze water???

Please post your results....
Brent Hasty

[UFO]

Originally Posted by fastegg

I'm not the one making stupid blanket claims... to me, anyone claiming performance and FE gains without dyno proof in this day and age is a stupid, unsubstantiated blanket claim.
Ive been reading about HHO since i got the internet which was Windows 95
and believe me, i would love it to work.... I would love to put on a bubbler with the flash looking Stainless Steel stack, stick a tube in the intake and get more HP and better FE..... I WANT DYNO PROOF, not stupid blanket claims.

Didn't claim you did, I was just expressing solidarity with you.

[fastegg]

Originally Posted by UFO

Didn't claim you did, I was just expressing solidarity with you.

Oh.... I knew that.....

but what is it with HHO guys ?..... This guy Autotech claiming 5% better FE... There is no way anybody could tell if 5% variations was a device or simply down to the way they were driving... jeez, my fuel consumption varies anything up to 20%..... If ive said it once i'll say it 1000 times... DYNO CHARTS !!!!!
I can't believe i'm still writing about this...... EVERY SINGLE GUY THAT CLAIMS BETTER FE DUE TO HHO..... ONCE I CHALLANGE THEM TO PRODUCE DYNO PROOF, I NEVER HEAR FROM THEM AGAIN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

W T F ???

[fastegg]

By the way... what's B20 ?

[D.O.G.]

Originally Posted by fastegg

Oh.... I knew that.....

but what is it with HHO guys ?..... This guy Autotech claiming 5% better FE... There is no way anybody could tell if 5% variations was a device or simply down to the way they were driving... jeez, my fuel consumption varies anything up to 20%..... If ive said it once i'll say it 1000 times... DYNO CHARTS !!!!!
I can't believe i'm still writing about this...... EVERY SINGLE GUY THAT CLAIMS BETTER FE DUE TO HHO..... ONCE I CHALLANGE THEM TO PRODUCE DYNO PROOF, I NEVER HEAR FROM THEM AGAIN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

W T F ???

fastegg, I feel the same way about anyone SELLING these generators. They should provide proof of gain.

The question is, is Autotech a seller or a user?
Is he trying to con us out of our hard earned money, or is he just trying to help by sharing something he genuinely believes works?

If he's in the second group....Thanks Autotech!

I'm old enough to make up my own mind about any of the DIY mods, odd theories or products mentioned on this and similar sites, but how can I, if I don't know they're out there?
This is why we have the Unicorn Corral. A place for something that might be of some use ..... even if it's only to give us a good laugh.

[fastegg]

Who is Unicorn Corral ?.....
and i don't know who Autotech is either.. but if he believes that HHO has worked he can go to his local dyno, run the car up, do a variety of runs....
and then turn the HHO off and do them again. Personally, i don't think any of the figures will change however i wish he would do it and i hope he proves me wrong... as ive said, i'd love HHO to work... i'd love to add water and add HP and better FE.... good luck Autotech

and who is B20 ?

[UFO]

Originally Posted by fastegg

By the way... what's B20 ?

B20 is a fuel mixture of 20% biodiesel and 80% petroleum diesel. As opposed to B100, which is 100% biodiesel.

[gone-ot]

Originally Posted by fastegg

Who is Unicorn Corral ?.....

...Unicorn Corral is the "circus ring" where P.T.Barnum keeps all the "mythical" HHO believers in, so that all of the "...birds of a feather..." can "...flock together..."

[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by teknomage2012

to truly bennifit from HHO one needs to take the waste heat from the coolant system and or the exhaust to generate the electricity to do the electrolosys. then the true bennifit will be dicernable...

Why even bother with HHO when an alt delete or belt removed alt disable is good about 10% more FE on smaller cars.

[Ken Fry]

Originally Posted by teknomage2012

the debate will then become is it better to couple that electricity back to the crank shaft directly using an electric drive or use it to electrolyze water???

Not much of a debate there. A kilowatt-hour of electrical energy applied via an electric motor can put .8 kWh (or more) into the driveshaft. A kWh of electricity applied to an electrolyzer will produce about .6 kWh worth of hydrogen. This, burned in a 30% efficient engine, will put .18 kWh into the driveshaft.

The BMW turbosteamer concept works along the lines you describe, but without the losses in going from steam to electricity. In the BMW, the mechanical energy from the steam engine is applied directly to the crankshaft.