Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Aerodynamics
Register Now
 Register Now

Reply  Post New Thread
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-04-2010, 11:35 PM   #271 (permalink)
Do more with less
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: North Eastern Missouri
Posts: 930

OD - '05 Ford Econoline
90 day: 18.64 mpg (US)

Joetta - '86 Volkswagen Jetta Turbo Oil Burner
90 day: 49.71 mpg (US)

Benzilla - '85 Mercedes Benz 300D
90 day: 28.08 mpg (US)
Thanks: 66
Thanked 177 Times in 112 Posts

I have seen heat and pressure warpage on parts including full fairings. Most of my parts have been pretty light duty.

Carbon (presumably fiberglass too) in an epoxy slurry is not the most stable of materials. We might consider the part to be cured in 48 hours when it comes out of the vacuum bagging or when we say that it is done with a wet layup. The epoxy works by the combining of the two parts of the chemistry. Eventually the chemicals become immobilized But I doubt if they are completely reacted. I think that rigidity keeps improving over months if not years. These chemicals are encumbered by their own rigidity.

When I first started doing composite work I got a tape and kit that was produced by Burt Rutan. He went over the processes that he used successfully in building light aircraft.

Aerospace users now use the prepeg type of layup with many tons of pressure. I doubt if those military or high end commercial planes have much trouble with heat/pressure induced flex.

I am not so sure about using too many dissimilar fillers, coefficient of expansion type of problems. I caught my wife using spackle on our Varna Streamliner. She was getting close to a deadline and needed something that would dry faster than the epoxy.

When we have sanded the body down it has a lot of colors in it.

Not sure if I answered your question very well.

“The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.” George Orwell

“Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe.

The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed.”

Noah Webster, 1787
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

Old 11-07-2010, 09:12 PM   #272 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
3-Wheeler's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Southern WI
Posts: 827

AlienMobile - '00 Honda Insight
Team Honda
90 day: 80.05 mpg (US)
Thanks: 101
Thanked 559 Times in 191 Posts
This is an early picture of the LED lights on the side of the extension.

Here is a closeup of the of LED cluster for the stop lights. The center, clear bulb is the backup light, and the upper, amber bulb is one of the blinker lights.

This is a close-up of the license plate illumination light. Notice the roughed out spackling job on the extreme edge of the tail?

And a shot of the tail. This picture is from about 4 weeks ago.

A the funny wood thingy is positioned inside the foam and lines up with the rear hatch.

You can see the LED light assembly peeking through the cutout.

And now a wedge of foam is added to the wood piece, which will end up being shaped for acrylic glass is this spot.

The extension is off the car and tipped upside-down, where the bottom side is getting ready for glassing.

The cutout for the acrylic has been finished, and the outer edges are being glassed.

And here is what the surface looks like after the epoxy hardens.

Now the acrylic is fitting inside the cutout.

Here's a telephoto shot of the side of the extension in a parking.

And another shot much closer.

A closeup of several LED lights on the side.


A shot of the rear end of the tail.

You can see the brush-strokes of the red paint. This is just a sealer for the winter.

A straight-on rear view of the tail.

In the lower portion of this picture, you can make out the start of rear wheel spats.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4253.JPG
Views:	1199
Size:	27.4 KB
ID:	7301   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4254.JPG
Views:	1145
Size:	44.5 KB
ID:	7302   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4255.JPG
Views:	1176
Size:	33.3 KB
ID:	7303   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4256.JPG
Views:	1158
Size:	36.2 KB
ID:	7304   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4257.JPG
Views:	1150
Size:	36.4 KB
ID:	7305  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4258.JPG
Views:	1139
Size:	32.1 KB
ID:	7306   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4260.JPG
Views:	1120
Size:	31.7 KB
ID:	7307   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4261.JPG
Views:	1182
Size:	37.6 KB
ID:	7308   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4262.JPG
Views:	1122
Size:	35.2 KB
ID:	7309   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4263.JPG
Views:	1163
Size:	33.1 KB
ID:	7310  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4264.JPG
Views:	1154
Size:	37.8 KB
ID:	7311   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4266.JPG
Views:	1166
Size:	52.3 KB
ID:	7312   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4267.JPG
Views:	1189
Size:	49.4 KB
ID:	7313   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4268.JPG
Views:	1130
Size:	28.8 KB
ID:	7314   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4269.JPG
Views:	1159
Size:	30.5 KB
ID:	7315  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4270.JPG
Views:	1185
Size:	48.6 KB
ID:	7316   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4271.JPG
Views:	1164
Size:	31.3 KB
ID:	7317   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4272.JPG
Views:	1188
Size:	52.4 KB
ID:	7318   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4273.JPG
Views:	1162
Size:	44.5 KB
ID:	7319  
  Reply With Quote
The Following 19 Users Say Thank You to 3-Wheeler For This Useful Post:
2003protege (11-11-2010), BamZipPow (11-24-2010), Boreas (11-08-2010), brucey (11-08-2010), Cd (11-08-2010), COcyclist (11-08-2010), Daox (11-09-2010), donee (11-08-2010), euromodder (11-08-2010), igo (11-12-2010), jime57 (12-11-2010), Lokalazeros (11-08-2010), mattbatson (01-24-2012), mjboks (11-08-2010), NeilBlanchard (11-07-2010), Piwoslaw (11-15-2010), sbdeadelf (11-09-2010), TomO (11-10-2010), Weather Spotter (11-08-2010)
Old 11-07-2010, 09:28 PM   #273 (permalink)
Batman Junior
MetroMPG's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 22,472

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 55.97 mpg (US)

Even Fancier Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 70.75 mpg (US)

Appliance car - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage ES (base)
90 day: 72.89 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,017
Thanked 6,904 Times in 3,581 Posts
Project MPGiata! Mods for getting 50+ MPG from a 1990 Miata
Honda mods: Ecomodding my $800 Honda Fit 5-speed beater
Mitsu mods: 70 MPG in my ecomodded, dirt cheap, 3-cylinder Mirage.
Ecodriving test: Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown

has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2010, 09:40 PM   #274 (permalink)
Coasting Down the Peak
skyl4rk's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: M I C H I G A N
Posts: 514

Toyauto Pickup - '94 Toyota Pickup 2WD
90 day: 36.32 mpg (US)

Versa Base - '09 Versa Sedan 1.6 Base
Team Nissan
90 day: 41.69 mpg (US)
Thanks: 27
Thanked 41 Times in 34 Posts
Very nice job!
Nissan Versa Aeromods
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2010, 09:51 PM   #275 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Wisconsin, United States
Posts: 479
Thanks: 6
Thanked 20 Times in 20 Posts
If I see you on the road i'll honk and wave.

Sweet build!
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2010, 04:29 PM   #276 (permalink)
Ultimate Fail
Cd's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Austin,Texas
Posts: 3,578
Thanks: 2,868
Thanked 1,116 Times in 676 Posts
My new dream car !
Can't wait to find out the new Cd !
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2010, 05:55 PM   #277 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 204

- - '10 Toyota Prius III w/Navi
Thanks: 4
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Hi Varn,

The issue (for the benefit of others) is how fast you can mix, and apply it. Its open time is short, and defenitaly variable based on the shape of the mixed container, and the final shape of the part. The practicality of this, is that really good parts can only be made so big by a single person. If the epoxy is not at the same state of cure in layers, its not going to make a good part. That is, if you have one end of an object half cured, and then apply freshly mixed epoxy on the other end there is going to be a
"knit" line that is prone to failure.

Allot of the problem can be eliminated with the vacuum bagging technique called "vacuum infusion" The epoxy is pulled into the matrix uniformly and quickly by this method. Two people can impregnate structures up to 50 foot long in a matter of hours, with a superior build quality. There was a video on the internet of this done by a Dutch boat builder. It was quite remarkable how straightforward and undramatic the impregnation was, in comparison to traditional techniques such as hand-lay-up.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2010, 11:12 PM   #278 (permalink)
Ultimate Fail
Cd's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Austin,Texas
Posts: 3,578
Thanks: 2,868
Thanked 1,116 Times in 676 Posts
U.C.L.A. did some testing on a Ford Taurus back in '97 in which they did a complete body overhaul. One of the things that they did was to add a short boat-tail to the car.

Something that I found interesting is that they hollowed out some of the area around the back license plate. Supposedly this helped as the airflow separated off the back.

Would you consider doing something like this on the Insights tail ? It would be an easy modification.

The link now appears to be dead, but here it is :http://www.team-fate.net/technical/1997TechReport.pdf
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2010, 08:01 AM   #279 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
NeilBlanchard's Avatar
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth
Posts: 7,907

Mica Blue - '05 Scion xA RS 2.0
Team Toyota
90 day: 42.48 mpg (US)

Forest - '15 Nissan Leaf S
Team Nissan
90 day: 156.46 mpg (US)

Number 7 - '15 VW e-Golf SEL
90 day: 155.81 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,475
Thanked 2,950 Times in 1,844 Posts
I think the rear transom on this boattail is so small that making it concave wouldn't matter. Do you have pictures of the Taurus boattail?
Sincerely, Neil

  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2010, 08:14 AM   #280 (permalink)
Daox's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 11,202

CM400E - '81 Honda CM400E
90 day: 51.49 mpg (US)

Daox's Grey Prius - '04 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 49.53 mpg (US)

Daox's Insight - '00 Honda Insight
90 day: 64.33 mpg (US)

Swarthy - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage DE
90 day: 56.69 mpg (US)

Daox's Volt - '13 Chevrolet Volt
Thanks: 2,499
Thanked 2,580 Times in 1,549 Posts
Beautiful work.

Current project: A better alternator delete
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FS: All USED Honda Insight Parts For Sale Fabio For Sale 17 06-16-2013 02:49 PM
Project: Rebuilding an '01 Honda Insight as a nonhybrid Fabio Hybrids 158 01-12-2013 11:59 AM
Project: Zombie Insight (2000 Honda) RobertSmalls Hybrids 191 03-03-2012 06:35 PM
Designing a tail extension for the first-gen Insight RobertSmalls Aerodynamics 187 07-11-2010 10:44 PM
Honda Insight Concept to Debut at Paris Int. Auto Show SVOboy EcoModder Blog Discussion 32 04-17-2009 10:45 AM

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com