Honda Insight w/Acura TSX engine - Ecomodding

[mpg_numbers_guy]

I used Alla's S-HCR's. Unfortunately when I checked recently they only offer the exact bulbs as 3000K/yellow in the Insight's size. They seem to have come out with newer to replace them. I think they're the same ones that Rainsux or another IC member uses. I suspect my power draw may be slightly higher than yours because they do have fans. If I were to do it again I would probably get passively cooled ones just for reliability and ease of installation. The fans haven't malfunctioned yet.

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Your HID measurements sound exactly like what I found with mine. Supposedly they save energy, but in reality might be a tiny bit more than halogens. Might be 35W at the bulb, but the ballast isn't 100% efficient.

I don't modify the housing, so if a ballast goes, I just throw a halogen in, which I keep as a spare in the glove box.

So far I've found HIDs to work well in projector housings, and LEDs to work well in reflector housings.

My LEDs were very efficient... I'll have to dig it up again, but something like 10w each.

HIDs would be nice, but I'm skeptical about using them without projectors, and I'd rather have the power savings and simplicity of the LEDs. I need to measure the power draw of mine.

Originally Posted by Ecky

I opted for the brightest (advertised) LEDs I could find which had passive cooling with the smallest COBs, so it would be closer to a point-source. Perhaps there are more efficient LEDs out there, but I don't have time right now to try dozens. Plus, these are interchangeable with my partner's Fit's LEDs. Do you know off-hand which you ordered?

Are they the same LEDs as are on the Fit? How does the light output compare between the two?

[Ecky]

I haven't driven my car enough at night yet to have a good comparison, and the Fit's lights are fogged over right now. However, I do have the impression the Fit headlights are better, all else being equal.

Made 47.5mpg on my way to work this morning, low 20's and with the roads being practically soup.

I think the grille block is way more important with this engine than the old one. Without it, it won't get up to temperature in this weather even without running the heater. I could let it idle for 5 minutes and the coolant would end up warmer than if I drove it for 30. I know the thermostat works, so my suspicion is that it's simply air passing over the engine block itself. Too little load, too much block surface area. With a 95% grille block in place it warms up quickly.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by mpg_numbers_guy

HIDs would be nice, but I'm skeptical about using them without projectors, and I'd rather have the power savings and simplicity of the LEDs. I need to measure the power draw of mine.

My experience is that LEDs have a terrible light pattern in projectors, but good pattern in reflectors. I was going to replace the HID kit in my Prius projectors, but I couldn't get a decent pattern from them.

Instead I put the LEDs in my reflector housing on my motorcycle.

Originally Posted by Ecky

I opted for the brightest (advertised) LEDs I could find which had passive cooling with the smallest COBs, so it would be closer to a point-source. Perhaps there are more efficient LEDs out there, but I don't have time right now to try dozens. Plus, these are interchangeable with my partner's Fit's LEDs. Do you know off-hand which you ordered?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Turns out I posted a while back that I measured them at 15 watts each. The product description says 25 watts each, but I wasn't able to replicate that even after half an hour of them heating up. Voltage doesn't matter either. They consume roughly the same amount regardless of voltage.

One thing I don't like about LEDs is that I cannot find any that have a color temperature below 6k. That's more blue than I care for, and would prefer something closer to 4k.

[serialk11r]

Guy on Spyderchat is a big headlight stickler, I think he says JDM ASTARs are good since they mimick a filament sized light source.

I used to run some really weak Ebay LEDs, and I will admit seeing at night was actually pretty difficult. Definitely get the better stuff.

[Ecky]

Update:

I'm not super happy with these headlight bulbs in the Insight reflectors, and I think I'm now able to articulate why: They're bright, and have a clean cutoff, but the hot spots are in the wrong place. Compared with my work van, which has the most light being cast up near the cutoff line, or the Fit, which is similar even with the same LEDs, the Insight reflectors seem to throw a larger portion of the light on the ground closer to the car. This isn't great as the brighter foreground makes it a little harder to see distant objects. The high beams also don't have a terribly wide throw, whereas the Fit and Connect illuminate a much wider area. They're not bad, just decidedly unimpressive considering how much better the Fit does with the same bulbs. Part of this could be how much higher off the ground their lamps are, however.

I'm going through fuel and timing maps yet again, cleaning up fuel maps outside of what's normally used, as the fuel maps will help inform ignition timing. Lower fuel at a given MAP means lower cylinder pressure, means lower flame speed, means more advanced timing is needed in that area. Different can angles will have different fuel values at the same spot on the graph as they have more exhaust gasses pulled back into the cylinder, displacing fuel and air, so the timing maps will be slightly different too. Doing it this way is necessary as literally no tuner out there is going to want to fine tune part throttle timing, and I'm too picky for "well your timing map looks good enough."

On my way in to work this morning it was 14F outside and I managed 50mpg by the time I pulled into the office, with a peak of 52mpg before getting off the highway. Target speed was 65mph. I don't have enough data to say for certain that I'm getting better fuel economy with 20 degrees of intake cam advance rather than the 30 that is commonly recommended but it's looking that way. More cam advance is supposed to improve fuel economy because it has an EGR effect and reduces vacuum losses. I'll continue to experiment, and maybe some day I'll be able to do an apples to apples comparison.

Edit: an item of interest to me is that there's a large anomaly in the fuel maps around 1750-2500RPM that's hard to tune for. In all other areas, fueling at higher vacuum is proportional to lower vacuum, basically the curves look the same. However in that throttle region there is a huge lump in the top line where manifold pressure is the same as atmosphere, and the only idea I have is that the engine volumetric efficiency is well over 100% in this area, perhaps as high as 110-115% at the very peak. This is tough with tuning because there's little relationship with MAP.

[MakitaDiesel]

I copied this from a post you made on the K swapped FB page 3 weeks back.

Converting your Kpro maps to similar Ktuner maps has quickly become more daunting than I expected. It's like trying to play Halo on a PlayStation or translating old English into IKEA instructions. After skimming through your parameters I had a couple questions: why not use stock knock control logic? I assume you tuned on either 89 or 91. We seem to have 87, 89, and 93 here.

I plan to also change the gear comp as I have a 5-speed with a 4.3 diff and tweak speedo correction.

When you say add fuel and pull timing to use as a starting point on a similar engine, do you mean pull 2° and add (x?) fuel everywhere or just the last 3 columns? I'll understand more (and have more questions) once I actually start the process and datalog on a moving car.

[Ecky]

Best I can tell, stock knock logic is something like this: Follow the normal timing maps. Listen for any knock at all. When knock is detected, massively retard timing and throw a CEL. Keep timing retarded and CEL lit until a mechanic replaces whatever broke, because the stock map should not knock unless something is very wrong.

You can probably use whatever knock logic the base map comes with, or even give the stock logic a try. I know it makes tuning difficult, as it assumes an inattentive driver and a system whose parameters cannot be changed. What you'll want to bring over mostly will be fuel, ignition and cam advance maps, plus maybe some of the temperature compensation curves. My tune is for 93.

I'd try the timing maps just as they are. If you get bad knock, pull 2-3 degrees from the last two columns and maybe 1 degree from the third row. Adding 5% fuel to the last 2-3 columns isn't a bad idea either. Better to run rich there than lean.

My timing maps have come a long way since then, and you may want to look at the new ones. I got ahold of some good maps from one of the best tuners and plagiarized it, and have been happy so far. I'll attach my latest tune when I get home from work.

[Ecky]

Attached is the latest revision of my engine map. Currently the 20 degree cam fuel has been re-tweaked. I'm planning next to find the knock threshold at WOT and adjust the timing curve (for 20 degrees of cam adv) but I don't expect timing to change more than a few degrees.

[Ecky]

Related news: I have two Insights now. The second one was dropped off a few weeks ago in my driveway by a tow truck, cost me nothing but the tow to get it. Finally got around to looking at it today, turns out salt had corroded The engine bay grounds. Made a few new cables and it started right up and runs great. I'll need to decide what to do with it; I don't fancy paying registration and insurance on a third car, but it would give me some more freedom to work on my K-Sight. I guess I could always move the plates over on the days I'm driving it.

[mpg_numbers_guy]

Does the IMA work?

Now you can do direct comparison MPG tests between the two in same weather, driving and road conditions!

When you drive the "new" Insight, do you ever mash the gas only to realize you're not in your K-sight?