How to build a muscle car for better fuel economy?

[freebeard]

Follow slowmovewr's advice and you wind up in this territory:

But if there’s anything less practical than a pony car, we’d like to see it.

[Phoenix'97]

Originally Posted by slowmover

A car that carries but two people, nearly no luggage, and can’t tow a trailer of reasonable size isn’t one on which to waste money.

After cutting unnecessary cold starts (using combined trips), and establishing new habits in maintaining, repairing and driving the vehicle, there won’t be much left in the way of savings.

Count the gallons.

If this is only about better FE with the same **** habits, it’s a real waste of time.

A muscle car is a family car with greater acceleration. That’s it, if one understands the history. Stoplight to stoplight. From there it grows branches.

But if there’s anything less practical than a pony car, we’d like to see it.

“Practical” is ones family. A man with a “car” that leaves them out is good for nothing.

Build a sedan, at least.

Second time: How many gallons saved annually after revision of habits, first?

What will be the percentage change to the annual average fuel bill, second?

It won’t be 50%, will it? Won’t offer savings significant to justify (income then dedicated to useful purposes).

Don’t reply, do the numbers.

Better handling and braking from a family sedan is a HP increase, as more becomes useable. Etc. Look down this path. A 9c1 Caprice. Police-spec. One of those branches from above.

A post 2003 Crown Vic. (Can easily hit 30-mpg Highway). Mercury Marauder gear.

If it’s “all about me” then disregard entirely.

.

.

I am going to stress the fact that my goal is NOT to recoup the money spent on this car from gas savings! The goal is to improve upon a car designed in the mid-to-late 1980's that went into production during the mid-nineties with new technology and better parts that have since come to the market! A big improvement is ALL L.E.D. lighting in the car!

Currently my car is in an aged out state and I would like to have her refurbished to like new and with an engine and drivetrain tailored to the type of driving I do with the added emphasis of optimizing for fuel economy where possible!

Some of the advice I have been given on this site I will end up incorporating into the car while other ideas are too far out of the realm for my consideration. For all intents and purposes, this build is supposed to produce a street car that is something that you might expect to come out of the GM plant if they were making this car TODAY! So, extreme Aero-mods are out of the question, especially lowering the car for better aerodynamic effect when this will make the car extremely difficult to drive in the winter. An underbody cover may be considered but for the ease of maintenance I may decide to go without one.

Also, my car can seat two passengers in the back, so it is HARDLY a car that is inappropriate for the family, so long as we don't have more than three children.

[freebeard]

TLDR: Resto-mod.

Just probing the boundaries. How else do you know?

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

Often A/F ratios are limited by how emission systems work so I wouldn't say the Prius is optimized for economy without adding within emission rules. I personally feel the catalytic converter is a part that should be reconsidered a mandate, as well as certain types of emissions being all that terrible across the board. What does controlling NOX at such a high standard do to other pollution. One day we might find 100 years of catalytic converter use has created a superfund site on the side of every single interstate highway with heavy metal contamination. Meanwhile smog hasn't been a thing in 50 years and we burned a billion extra gallons a fuel to keep our converters hot.

Yes, A/F ratios are limited in factory cars due to the requirement for OEMs to meet emission standards. Much of engine tuning discussed here on ecomodder is illegal.

Smog is still a thing. Visit any city over 1 million people and you will find smog.

[Phoenix'97]

Originally Posted by JSH

Yes, A/F ratios are limited in factory cars due to the requirement for OEMs to meet emission standards. Much of engine tuning discussed here on ecomodder is illegal.

Smog is still a thing. Visit any city over 1 million people and you will find smog.

This is why I am exploring my options and seeing what I can and can not do. Fortunately I don't live in California but New York has recently adopted the stringent emissions standards of California. So, trying to do my part to help make my car more "emissions friendly", I am exploring the tried-and-true methods to improve low RPM/mid-range RPM torque production from an improved factory/mild cammed 5.7L engine. Front wheel electric hub motors can also assist in the low RPM torque production. Yes, I am aware of the legality behind long tube headers, even if I have them built with emissions hook-ups and making use of California catalytic converters! I need to ask around and see what I can do!

EVEN TO USE ISO-BUTANOL IN MY CAR MAY BE ILLEGAL! Someone mentioned that if I am not paying some tax on this fuel for my car that I can get in trouble with the IRS. Well, if Big Brother is reading this, you better find a way to tax the fuel now, huh? Do they even tax Ethanol when the damn stuff is heavily subsidized? They tax non-ethanol gasoline which is what I use!

[henshao]

I have read this thread from start to finish, as it pertains to some of my own hopes and dreams. I own a 95 LT1 firebird; I should probably start my own thread. But there are some points to chime in on here.

I am glad to see that only one or two guys actually had the gall to say an LT1 Firebird isn't a muscle car. Very helpful fellas

Re: An oil cooler. As some of you may or may not know the LT1 features reverse-flow cooling, and the cooling system I believe is overengineered as a precaution: the LT1 cars have 5 quarts of oil and 15 quarts of coolant, and I'm somewhat confident the oil heats up faster than the coolant, at least in my car which has an electric water pump and hence has perhaps excessively effective cooling at idle.

However, if you have your heart set on such a modification, it is hardly a modification at all. The factory radiator has two sub-cores to which an oil line and a transmission fluid line could be run.

My takeaways from this thread for my own goals are that my long hoped for and dreamed of electric-front wheels-with-a-rear-mount-turbo is perhaps crazy like a fox after all.

How's this sound: Altermotor, hub motor driven front wheels, large rear mount turbo, and 18:1 A/F cruising ratio? I am pleased to learn that a mixture so very lean is actually cooler burning.

My car has 2.73's behind the automatic and turns 2000rpms at 80mph. It has far, far more than enough low end to continue accelerating seemingly forever with very little throttle. Either there is something wrong with the OP's car or his WS6 (Firehawk if I'm not mistake) came with a mid-to-high range cam.

[BLSTIC]

Electric front wheels is *way* too hard.

The "TransWarp" series of motors uses a TH700 output shaft. The shaft is also double-ended, meaning it can take an *input*. If you got a hold of the guys who make it, you might find out how much torque can be transmitted through it. If it's high enough, that's the mechanically simplest way of hybridising a car.

[henshao]

Hub motors is way too hard?

[freebeard]

To be done economically, it needs to be done with OEM parts instead of one-off custom parts. I'm not aware of any production car with hub motors. There are problems with unsprung weight and keeping the dirt and grime out of it.

If there is clearance at the axle line there are SUV rear axles that might serve — Highlander, LX400h, RAV4. A belt driven altermotor or something inline in the driveshaft seem more feasible.

[BLSTIC]

Yep, fwd vehicles have a multitude of rear drive electric options. The opposite is not true