How do you get your car to warm up quickly?

[DifferentPointofView]

^ or older vehicles just don't have all the newer technology like the newer ones. the newer ones are probably designed to warm to operating temp faster than the older ones, especially in the winter. Climate control is one thing on the more electronic vehicles. People like to be warm I guess.

[roflwaffle]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Guess again. The thermostatic flaps closed up when cold to route hot exhaust through passages in the intake manifold, to heat the carb. They did not restrict exhaust enough for any EGR action.

How can it send heated exhaust back through the intake manifold so that it wouldn't be drawn back into the engine? Was there a separate series of passageways just to heat the carb w/o actually sending any gas back through the engine? In either event the system would have to be some form of EGR since trapping gases in the manifold would result in some that are trapped in the cylinder and sending it back into the carb/intake to be drawn into the cylinder would do the same. EGR can be from the exhaust to the cylinder or just trapping more exhaust gases than normal in cylinder.

[Frank Lee]

Originally Posted by roflwaffle

How can it send heated exhaust back through the intake manifold so that it wouldn't be drawn back into the engine? Was there a separate series of passageways just to heat the carb w/o actually sending any gas back through the engine?

Yes.

In either event the system would have to be some form of EGR since trapping gases in the manifold would result in some that are trapped in the cylinder and sending it back into the carb/intake to be drawn into the cylinder would do the same. EGR can be from the exhaust to the cylinder or just trapping more exhaust gases than normal in cylinder.

Nope. This system was only on "V" engines. With the flapper shut, hot exhaust from that bank went up and over through the intake manifold via special passage to the exhaust manifold on the other side and it all continued on out from there. I doubt the back pressure rise on the flapper side was enough to cause an "EGR" effect. Even if it was, it would have only done one bank! As an example, I put sidepipes on my old small block Chevy but kept the flapper. From cold, almost no exhaust went out the right side sidepipe. It all went out the left. When the flapper opened it went out both. It works on single exhaust too for as you know "V" engines all have dual exhaust until the point they are joined.

Actually go look at one of these things, then it will become clear.

[roflwaffle]

IOC! Thanks for the info, your description suffices!

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Nope. This system was only on "V" engines. With the flapper shut, hot exhaust from that bank went up and over through the intake manifold via special passage to the exhaust manifold on the other side and it all continued on out from there. I doubt the back pressure rise on the flapper side was enough to cause an "EGR" effect.

I think it's reasonable to assume there was an increase in effective EGR for both banks, especially the one w/ the flapper. Considering the very small amount of internal EGR in modern engines via VV/T-whateverthemanufacturerdecidedtonameit due to constraints wrt low load mixture and alla that I can see a halving of effective exhaust size up to the larger y-pipe resulting in a similar, albeit less symmetrical, situation.

[Frank Lee]

There ain't much psi in an exhaust, especially if ya don't romp on it when it's cold. I could stick my hand over those sidepipes and close off the flow completely, easily. The exhaust would simply choose to go through the intake and out the other side. I'm thinking no EGR effect.

[roflwaffle]

As long as the pressure increases there's going to be an EGR effect compared to the stock exhaust system. As exhaust gas flow increases so does this effect. It may not be symmetrical or strictly metered like internal EGR on modern engines, but it's EGR nonetheless IMO.

[RH77]

OK -- let me be the "thorn in the side" or "devil's advocate here"...

Our TSX has NO EGR... so what does that mean? It has the i-VTEC system that variates the cam timing.

The only feedback that I get is from the stock FE graphic display, or the SG-II, when equipped.

I understand that this is a modern setup, that does not represent most engine designs. So, what is the most efficient technique for cold-starts?

It has no EBH, or other FE enhancing devices -- purely stock (with the exception of tire pressures). I've noticed that the recommended "gradual warmup" produces the best results. For those unfamiliar, the absence of an EGR has been replaced by variable cam timing --specificially at idle to reduce timing at idle. The vehicle warms up quickly, but without relying on recirc of exhaust gasses. Modifying this system is likely unsucessful...

...But...on the 'Teg, forcing backpressure is indeed an interesting argument. I'll be poised to see what develops...

RH77

[Frank Lee]

HA! My '63 Chev had EGR- who knew?

[roflwaffle]

Originally Posted by RH77

Our TSX has NO EGR... so what does that mean? It has the i-VTEC system that variates the cam timing.

If a manufacturer has fine enough control over the exhaust valve timing/lift they can effectively keep some exhaust in the cylinder, which is usually called internal EGR. This is much nicer than older systems since there's no need to run a separate line from the exhaust to the intake and alla that provided there is enough control over the amount of exhaust left over from the last stroke. Restricting the exhaust pipes will also result in more exhaust staying in the cylinder compared to stock/normal, in other words more exhaust gas recirculation/staying in the cylinder for the next combustion event.

Originally Posted by Acura

EGR Effect

At moderate engine speeds, i-VTEC advances cam timing for increased valve overlap, creating an internal exhaust gas re-circulation (EGR) effect. At the same time, the lift of one intake valve is reduced to achieve a strong swirl effect in the combustion chamber. The combined swirl effect and internal EGR effect provide for a highly efficient combustion process - so efficient that there is no need for an EGR valve to recycle exhaust gases, further enhancing the engine's clean burning performance.

From earlier in the thread...

Originally Posted by Coyote X

From what my camaro ran like during the brief time I had restrictors duct taped over my exhaust it made it run good at low rpms. The other guy who tested them noticed his car warmed up a lot faster with them on.

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

The fastest warming car I've ever driven was a Mitsubishi 2.0L (I think - whatever the motor was in the Talon/Eclipse/Laser).

I bet the Mitsu was turbocharged.

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

HA! My '63 Chev had EGR- who knew?

Probably the individuals who designed the system. Warming up the intake faster and keeping some more heat in the cylinders than normal is an easy peasy way to help cold combustion. It's not EGR in the sense that some proportional amount of exhaust gas is routed back to the intake, or that it's metered, but it has characteristics of both internal/external EGR systems, so I call it EGR.

[Frank Lee]

Don't call different things with different functions EGR, it's confusing.

Plus, you'll be the only one doing that.