How do you get your car to warm up quickly?

[roflwaffle]

Lemme put it this way, I would say a temporary restriction like a flapper results in more EGR. I don't mean the flapper is an EGR system in the conventional sense, I mean it increases EGR. EGR and EGR systems don't mean the same thing. Any car has some measure of Exhaust Gas Recirculation since it's hard for all the exhaust gases in the cylinder to be expelled, and since the flapper is increasing the amount of exhaust present in the cylinder during warmup I would say it's increasing EGR. I think my language was a bit vague and hope this clears up what I meant.

[Frank Lee]

Don't call it EGR cuz EGR = Exhaust Gas Recirculation, and if the gas isn't getting out of the cylinder in the first place, it ain't recirculating!!!

I get your theory by the way. The fact is neither of us know exactly what is happening in the cylinder.

"...and since the flapper is increasing the amount of exhaust present in the cylinder during warmup I would say it's increasing EGR."

You don't know that.

[roflwaffle]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Don't call it EGR cuz EGR = Exhaust Gas Recirculation, and if the gas isn't getting out of the cylinder in the first place, it ain't recirculating!!!

Internal EGR is still called EGR even if the gas isn't getting out of the cylinder in the first place. It ain't recirculating, just keeping the gas in there for the next cycle, but it's still called EGR.

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

I get your theory by the way. The fact is neither of us know exactly what is happening in the cylinder.

"...and since the flapper is increasing the amount of exhaust present in the cylinder during warmup I would say it's increasing EGR."

You don't know that.

Course I don't. Just like I don't know that EGR helps out with emissions in the first place. But based on what I've read EGR helps keep peak combustion temps down and limits NOx formation within certain bounds and increasing back pressure will likely keep more of the exhaust in the cylinder. Maybe if we were to take a given engine, and could measure everything accurately and precisely, we might find that for a given exhaust system restriction the exhaust gases retained are only marginally higher (or NOx reduction was marginally lower), or perhaps even lower over some range due to light scavenging, but I would wager that in general more back pressure tends to lead to more exhaust gas staying in the cylinder.

[RH77]

Good info 'waffle'.

I don't believe the argument is what we're calling this process, EGR, Exhaust Gas Restriction, Exhaust Gas Backpressure Enhancement, etc...

The point of the argument is whether the retainment of burned gasses will speed the process of coolant temperature increase.

That's why we're proposing a test here -- to find out. We don't know exactly what is going on -- I'm far from either a Vehicle Mechanic or Physicist, so I can't tell you. I can only rely on Internet research and proper experiments with my own vehicle.

RH77

[roflwaffle]

While I do like to see tests done and data had, I'm a brat when it comes down to actually doing it...

A mathematician, an engineer and a chemist are at a conference. They are staying in adjoining rooms. One evening they are downstairs in the bar. The mathematician goes to bed first. The chemist goes next, followed a minute or two later by the engineer. The chemist notices that in the corridor outside their rooms a rubbish bin is ablaze. There is a bucket of water nearby. The chemist starts concocting a means of generating carbon dioxide in order to create a makeshift extinguisher but before he can do so the engineer arrives, dumps the water on the fire and puts it out. The next morning the chemist and engineer tell the mathematician about the fire. He admits he saw it. They ask him why he didn't put it out. He replies contemptuously "there was a fire and a bucket of water: a solution obviously existed."

Here's A nice thread on the subject.

Originally Posted by cleverlever

Patent 3,714,932 has some great information on the virtues of internal EGR derived from VVT and external EGR.
In a nutshell Internal EGR is vastly superior to external EGR in accelerating engine warm up. Internal EGR is superior to external EGR in reducing hydrocarbon emissions because the hydrocarbon emissions are more concentrated in the last part of the exhaust stroke. Internal EGR is better for uniform distribution of EGR because its regulation is confined to each cylinder rather than diffused in the intake manifold

I don't think newer engines would see much if any benefit but older ones w/o any EGR present may see a measurable benefit. That being said, would making some sort of exhaust throttle be worthwhile compared to just running a block heater at home, or even a block heater off an extra deep cycle battery/inverter away from home?

[AXMonster]

How about this for a warmup solution? Lets call it a Fast Warmup Device.

Take an EGR cooler off a modern engine (such as the Ford Focus diesel). This is a stainless steel one:

Attach it to an exhaust diverter valve Y piece:



That's an expensive one You will be able to pick one up for free with a vacuum control valve from MKIV Supra turbo owners who've 'gone single' and will likely throw it away

Plumb the two together and feed a coolant pipe through the cooler, and there you have an exhaust heated FWD.

Unlike the above valve assembly the Supra one only has one butterfly in one of the two runners, so less than half the exhaust gas would go through the cooler, which wouldn't be a bad thing.

Supra EGCV:



Also a Y piece would have to be made up for the inlet from the stock exhaust, and chop & weld the outlet.... but that's not a problem for us professionals

The egr cooler (now a heater) would need to be sited a bit of a way from the exhaust system so that residual heat didn't get to it when it was not in use & cause overheating of the coolant.

A simple thermostatic switch could be used to switch the system back to standard exhaust routing when the coolant was up to temp.

[diesel_john]

AX,
another of your awesome ideas. When they start scraping those EGR heat exchangers, send us a few, OK.

(erased the thermostat issue) Modern cars with electric fans are designed to warm up in 2 miles unless very cold air temps. with grill block even faster.

I have everything made to block the exhaust on my F250, i just haven't had a chance to test it yet. This vehicle had a clutch fan which is terrible for warmup.

What data do you want?
temps., outside air, engine coolant vs. time
manifold vacuum(to test the Exhaust Gas Retention)EGR
Back pressure?

[RH77]

Originally Posted by diesel_john

RH77, you have a thermostat issue. Modern cars with electric fans are designed to warm up in 2 miles unless very cold air temps. with grill block even faster.

Woah -- wait a sec, where did that come from??? Bro, I made that statement 3 months ago to mediate this thread and get some data. I totally forgot about this thread in that span...

I have no problem with my 'stat. It's fairly new, fully operable, but still takes a while to warm up. It's a 1.8L with full air flow across the rad without mods (I have a couple of baking pans across it now). Just ask most folks with in cold climates with small displacement engines. Eventually, I get at least 212F+ on a warm day; however...

You have not inquired about time from cold start to highway driving. In many cases, this is less than 2 minutes. The cold blast into the engine compartment, is many times, too forceful to warm up in less than 5-10 minutes. The transmission is the same or even longer.

RH77

[tjts1]

Originally Posted by SVOboy

I'm running an almost total grill block, but I can still make the 5 mile drive to the library without having the car get warmed up...Today I took my mom's car while mine was torn up and from the library it warmed up in about a mile of driving!

Needless to say, I wonder why my engine is so slow to heat up and how I can fix it. Should I just run a complete grill block? Are they any other tricks besides that and the block heater? Does anyone else have a similarly slow-to-warm car?

Thankz!

Maybe its time to replace your thermostat. Some times when the thermostat fails, it doesn't close all the way increasing warm up time.
Most temperature gauges are not llinear so it might show only 1/4 when the engine could be at almost 90% of normal operating temp.
cheers
Justin

[fabrio.]

Originally Posted by SVOboy

I'm running an almost total grill block, but I can still make the 5 mile drive to the library without having the car get warmed up...Today I took my mom's car while mine was torn up and from the library it warmed up in about a mile of driving!

Needless to say, I wonder why my engine is so slow to heat up and how I can fix it. Should I just run a complete grill block? Are they any other tricks besides that and the block heater? Does anyone else have a similarly slow-to-warm car?

Thankz!

SVOboy.

I do not have reas all posts, so, I do not know if my next information it is write from other user.
I know, that the old VW TDI engines they uses 3 GLOW PLUGS inserted in the whater cooling sistem.
In the warmup, the GLOW PLUGS they, hot the wather quikly because, the diesel engines produce little heat thanks to higt engine rendering