How Many Automatics out There? (FE techniques discussion)

[Gone4]

I have an automatic right now, that I currently don't drive; my little brother has it while I am at school. I only started to begin using some efficiency techniques before I went back to using my legs. Keeping the RPM low - although I need to find the optimal range somewhere for my 2001 Focus SE - often by accelerating at a moderate pace and letting up on the accelerator so the tranny will shift earlier. I experienced huge savings just by keeping a more constant RPM and not a constant speed over the white and green mountains. I tried EOC and my car didn't like it, to say the least... the nasty thud scared me.

[Lazarus]

Have an automatic. No EOC. Engine off at lights and pick the best route that will allow me to get into OD quickly and stay there as much as possible. Speed 55-60 on the highway and drive with load on the hills.

[roflwaffle]

Engine on Pees and Gees, are what really work for me. I also found out that there was little or no loss from going ~63mph instead of ~55mph... So Peeing and Geeing, WOT acceleration when I know I won't brake, staying of the brakes as much as possible in the city, and cruising at ~60+mph highway are surefire ways to pull 30+mpg with the six.

[malibuguy]

what i've been doing in the cavy, is neutral costing down hills, shutting off the engine at a fresh red light & accelerating as moderate as possible...i count off 1...2...3 etc for each 4-5mph i gain, torque converter lock-up doesn't happen until around 38mph, i try to do most of my "harder accelerating" then

[hondaworkshop]

• Automatic 2000 Civic DX (4-speed with lock at 40mph in 4th), no plans to swap it
• I'm P&Ging, looking way ahead for coasting opportunities.
• No EOC temptations yet.
• Looking into 'stealth' aero mods since I spend so much time at 70mph
• I'm curious about neutral down hills instead of in gear, I'm not sure what the Honda TCU's Grade-Logic might already be doing. Both ways reads 9,999 mpg on the ScanGauge. I definitely feel engine braking when in gear...but don't the wheels pump the engine when coasting in gear (injectors off), while in neutral the injectors are on light-duty? I've also read that shifting too often into neutral and drive could be bad for the trans.
• I dont have enough data yet to conclude what my improvements are, but there are some definite improvements

[Who]

Originally Posted by DifferentPointofView

If you find that it down shifts all the time going up a hill, the best way is to GAIN speed just before you go up the hill, and maintain that throttle until you get to the top, then neutral coast down, or EOC down the hill.

I'm not sure that I'd agree that's the best way. I'll agree with gaining speed before you hit the hill, but I'd go into the hill with a set engine load in mind that will having you hitting the summit at a slower speed. The less traffic the lower that summit speed can be. If you let you speed bleed going over the hills and then recoup it as the road dips down you keep your power curve far far flatter and I would think that would be more optimal.

From a LOD perspective, where my regular flat stuff is all in the 30s, ideally lower 30s, moderate hills try and restrict LOD to 50, bigger 60, major 70. Grade and length of hill both have to be factored in, along with how much of an obstruction you might be.

***********************************************

For my slushbox strategy, I:

• restrict EOCs to under 1000' where I'm coming to a top if tranny's warm
• frequently shift to neutral whenever a coast opportunity is there
• sometimes use the manual shifter option to force upshifts sooner
• if not manually upshifting I lift off at 62 to force 5th gear upshift
• try to get into 5th quick and stay there, 62kph to shift in, 50 shifts down
• accelerate at 50 LOD in lower gears, with grade opportunites in 5th
• switch off for lights over 20 seconds
• downshift for mild DFCO when traffic slows up
• rarely let SWMBO drive, although it's hers, she drives my stick Accord!

The biggest thing for me is getting into 5th efficiently, my sweet spot is from 60 to 90 kph, if I can't get into 5th in urban areas (where I drive most of teh time), I P&G because 4th is at least 15% worse for FE.

[hondaworkshop]

RE: Neutral vs In-Gear

OK, I did some careful observation of the GPH (gallons per hour) on my ScanGauge II this morning during the commute. As far as the civic is concerned, this is the data I've got:

DOWNHILL COASTING:

In-Gear : 0.00GPH, but with slight engine braking
Neutral : 0.22GPH, with better speed retention

COMPLETELY STOPPED:

In-Gear : 0.20GPH
Neutral : 0.22GPH

So I'm happy enough knowing that I'm only using .02GPH more by keeping it in gear while waiting at a light vs Neutral... however I'm still on the fence about which is better for downhill coasting... for the sake of transmission wear, I'd be inclined to coast in-gear for most of the time.

[RH77]

I know for sure I need to get a full rad-block and seal the hood. I have the largest gap sealed on the leading edge, but cold air seeps in as it always does.

I did some observing over the last couple days too...

50 MPH is all I can get from 2000 RPM in full lockup. My most efficient speeds are in the 45-55 range if the momentum is carried.

On the highway, I use DPOV's speed building technique on downhills to load-up the next hill and scrub-off speed. Maybe I need to look at LOD?

The current cruising target is 55-60 MPH instead of the old 71-76 (depending on limit and traffic patterns). 60 is about the fastest before that wall of air hits and the begins turning too quickly (2 strikes). I think the 'Teg suffers from "sporty" gearing and fuel maps.

Not sure if this works best for acceleration but the car won't shift under 2-grand unless the low-loads are detected. So, to get anywhere, I give it about 40-50% TPS, lift at 2300-2500, shifts, etc. If traffic is in the way, lift at 2xxx RPM and then throttle.

Getting on the highway, I use 3K as the rule and lift. The cable mod overcomes the upshift uphill with a quick lift of the right foot, and then the throttle plate opens. The game ensues of how much pedal to give it before it wants to kick down. Apparently it's different with a passenger (LOD factor) -- it'll downshift briskly. Getting up to 55-60 is tough overall.

Reduced pumping losses with top gear and high TPS is the theory.

Originally Posted by roflwaffle

WOT acceleration when I know I won't brake, staying of the brakes as much as possible in the city, and cruising at ~60+mph highway are surefire ways to pull 30+mpg with the six.

I'm curious about this method -- I used to try it, but the Weather changed too much to test it properly. With WOT the open-loop kicks-in, so is it closer to 90%? I wonder if the FE at WOT or TPS-90 to 60 MPH in 2nd gear onward is lower than what I'm trying, or if slower is better.

In town, I'm constantly popping into Neutral and back in D or D3 (D3 reduced the Grade-Logic madness) -- maximizing coast.

RH77

[NoCO2]

Originally Posted by roflwaffle

Engine on Pees and Gees, are what really work for me. I also found out that there was little or no loss from going ~63mph instead of ~55mph... So Peeing and Geeing, WOT acceleration when I know I won't brake, staying of the brakes as much as possible in the city, and cruising at ~60+mph highway are surefire ways to pull 30+mpg with the six.

Wow, if you're pulling 30mpg with a V6 doing that, that's basically what I do with my Camry (I p&g with engine on, shifting into neutral), I can't wait to see what my fuel millage average is when I finish this tank off, the sad thing is is that I don't think it's going to be gone before spring break which means I am going to have to fill it before it's fully empty so the trip odometer won't read a nice pretty 450-500 miles on a single tank...god that would be lovely.

Righ now I'm at 130 miles to this tank and haven't even touched the 3/4 tank line