how to tackle the 'new car' issue? How can we change manufacturers minds?

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

High fuel prices. That's it. End of story.

We have those, they are a blunt instrument.

The issue here is that the 'urban wealthy' with Range Rovers and Porsche Cayennes will happily pay what is charged whilst doing mid-teen MPGs. My boss had a supercharged RR and he used as much fuel travelling to work for one day as I did in a week.

At the same time the 'rural poor' who rely on their vehicles to get around as there is little or no public transport where they live also have to suffer. These people also are those that need 4x4s and the like but can usually only afford older and less efficient ones.

In the meantime of course, those with RRs NEVER go off road, never tow etc.

[Frank Lee]

Evidently the U.S. motorist, in spite of the whining to reporters at every little price bump, in fact finds fuel to be cheap... cheap enough to squander even. In my neck of the woods, even the bottom of the economic strata e.g. every teenage buck who wants to mark his territory- somehow comes up with the funding for a V8 4x4 mud truck, jacked up, out of tune, driven in such as manner as to minimize fe, and of which the engine is never not running for a long enough period of time for it to reach ambient temperature. It appears we have yet to reach that price point where fe becomes a dominant factor in motoring behaviors.

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Evidently the U.S. motorist, in spite of the whining to reporters at every little price bump, in fact finds fuel to be cheap... cheap enough to squander even. In my neck of the woods, even the bottom of the economic strata e.g. every teenage buck who wants to mark his territory- somehow comes up with the funding for a V8 4x4 mud truck, jacked up, out of tune, driven in such as manner as to minimize fe, and of which the engine is never not running for a long enough period of time for it to reach ambient temperature. It appears we have yet to reach that price point where fe becomes a dominant factor in motoring behaviors.

Insurance may be a better route.

I have read of some 17-year olds (age for a licence here in the UK) being charged up to £3,500 (~$5k) for a year's worth of cover. They can reduce this with extra training on top of their basic licence and monitoring of their driving via GPS. But not by all that much.

So fuel becomes less of an issue in the total cost equation even with $9 gallons as they are here in the UK.

I have a 9.5 year old in my house so I suspect this become an issue before I want it to be.

[Frank Lee]

These young ones are getting their cue from the older ones who are also quite fond of unrelenting idling and tearing all over creation. It is quite normal here for people to drive two blocks for something rather than walk it.

It is evident to me that even though people complain about fuel costs, they must on some level realize that fuel is a minor component of overall vehicle cost, and they are treating it as such. One example would be the Auto-Start, seemingly the greatest invention since sliced bread. What we have here is a sea of idling vehicles with nobody in them. It is this flagrant waste and extravagant consumption that leads me to question the desire to drill baby drill the U.S. at this juncture.

[Arragonis]

What is an "Auto Start" which encourages this stupidity ?

Otherwise I blame the parents.

[CigaR007]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

What is an "Auto Start" which encourages this stupidity ?

I believe he is referring to a "remote car starter".

[Odin]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

Insurance may be a better route.

here in the states a lot of places its cheaper for insurance the bigger the cars or at least when i was in high school (three years ago) my 3500lb merc 300d was cheaper to insure by almost half what my little Mr2 was (2100lb base model)

true this might just be sports car vs sedan

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

But if you do that, and the wind changes (e.g. fuel prices fall, maybe temporarily for example) then you get stuck with eco inventory whilst everyone is off buying SUVs again.

Not necessarily, because you've figured out what your base market is, and you build and sell to that. If demand jumps temporarily (due to an oil price spike), you don't suddenly ramp up production, you raise the price :-)

And of course this doesn't apply just to eco cars: there are smaller brands who find a niche, and have done quite well by sticking to it. (And sometimes flopped when trying to move out of the niche.) Subaru comes to mind, and Lotus.

[320touring]

Right,

so we have 3 main options..

1. Increase fuel prices til its too expensive to have a guzzler

2. Increase insurance so that its too expensive to own a Guzzler

3. Support and promote manufacturers working HEAVILY towards an ECO lineup of models.


Is there scope for adding a 4th? e.g. minor behavioural change?

[Frank Lee]

Originally Posted by 320touring

1. Increase fuel prices til its too expensive to have a guzzler

2. Increase insurance so that its too expensive to own a Guzzler

3. Support and promote manufacturers working HEAVILY towards an ECO lineup of models.

Is there scope for adding a 4th? e.g. minor behavioural change?

I don't like 2 because that is a disconnect between insurance risk and the fees charged. The legitimate truck users shouldn't be penalized.

I'm not sure how to support and promote the business case for all ECO models outside of the Market overwhelmingly choosing to buy them and/or govt regs necessitating them. Impassioned letters to auto mfg mgmt may or may not even be read by those in a position to do something.

I think a fourth leg would be consumer education. I've long been disappointed by the apparant lack of effort on the part of the auto mfgs and govt to educate motorists about such things as the evils of excess idling, proper oil changes intervals, etc. In looking about online for these I've found the Canadian govt to be more proactive than the U.S.; at least they've provided a site that outlines some good basic ecomotoring tips and some data to back them up. As far as the mfgs go, occasionally Owner's Manuals provide some of these basic ecomotoring tips but I don't think they are comprehensive enough. An even bigger problem is that it appears 99% of Owner's Manuals never even get cracked open in the first place. I wonder if anyone would watch an engaging DVD if it were to be included with the Manuals... could salespeople speak of such things and not be told to shut up by the prospects... could dealerships host ecomotoring workshops... would anybody go... perhaps one could be forced to attend an ecomotoring workshop/pass an ecomotoring exam at every driver's license renewal...

Certainly Driver's Training could incorporate good ecomotoring tips but who knows how much of that would stick.

It would be helpful for the media to get on board. I've long thought that the magazines that cater to gearheads have been more influential in promoting the horsepower wars than anyone realizes. I wonder if today's Civic would have more horsepower than an older Corvette if it weren't for decades upon decades of magazine articles and reviews worshipping 0-60 times above all else?

I don't know what the answer to getting the word out to more motorists is but there seems to be a dearth of good websites about it and even if good ones were plentiful, they only attract the interested. It is the disinterested that need it the most.

An educated consumer base would certainly do a better job of choosing appropriate vehicles than what we've got going now.