Hybrids- A DANGER to the environment!

[zjrog]

Perhaps in the interest of safety and environmental preotection, the OP would consider a ban on the deadly dihydrogen monoxide. I mean, it kills hundreds of people a year...

Seriously. I am one of the few here that doesn't believe in in HUMAN caused global warming. I believe the planet warms and cools in direct relationship to its distance from the sun, light intensity from the sun and other factors all relating to the sun. YES, we have caused the planet harm, and for the last 30 years great strides have been taken by government, corporations, and individuals to improve the conditions around them. AND WE STILL HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO!

And while I also think I'm preceived as an apostate (for not believing in AGW), I am doing my part to help clean things up. I own SUVs, and go on marked 4x4 trails. I do group cleanups and pick stuff up on my own. I am always amazed to find as many granola wrappers as beer cans... (I'll start a thread about National Public Lands Day) I can get pretty decent mileage from my Jeep, as long as I stay on the highways. My mileage suffers when I'm on the trails. But then, its the mileage, and quest for better that brought me here.

But the "study" lured me in too at first, until I did some looking around and saw it for what it was. Garbage. (Just like everything out of the UN's enviro arm). Yes, the study was debunked on MANY different levels...

Nice try.

[Chuck.]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

In terms of sheer BS, that article contained and generated so much that if we had it all going into a biomethane system, our oil problems could be cut in half :-)

Exactly!

I'd like Toyota to get a bit of attitude and have a series of ads that simply and visually illustrate and dispel this idiotic hybrid-bashing....dismissive statements from GM....where are they now? Simple pictures and graphs on Sudbury. The EMF nonsense.

End the ad with: Two million hybrids sold - only 400 battery packs bad

[MadisonMPG]

I haven't read this thread.


Prius is a step in the right direction. Hummer is a step back. They don't even make the H2 anymore, so what are we worried about?

[jkp1187]

Originally Posted by zjrog

But the "study" lured me in too at first, until I did some looking around and saw it for what it was. Garbage. (Just like everything out of the UN's enviro arm). Yes, the study was debunked on MANY different levels...

Nice try.

Global warming doesn't even enter into it. (And that, too, is a complicated subject, and I'm not going to pretend I'm educated enough or qualified to comment on that.) But this CNW Marketing document is simply and obviously bad science.

This CNW report looked intriguing to me at first, too, (I'll always take a look at someone making a bold/contrarian claim, hey if they're right, I could learn a lot from them.) But when I read the thing, and read some of the responses, CNW didn't really have a leg to stand on. It's junk.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by jkp1187

But this CNW Marketing document is simply and obviously bad science.

As a sometime scientist myself, I think calling it science is an insult to every scientist who ever lived. It's just a deliberate lie from beginning to end, intended to mislead the gullible.

[Wonderboy]

The sad part is that he doesn't learn. This is certainly not the first drivel he's posted.

[bwilson4web]

Originally Posted by Hermie

And no, not from emmisions. From MAKING them.

Read this article, and . . .

This is part of a plan to make sure the gullible won't buy them and it has worked perfectly! For example, in the 2008 election, the Prius owners had a lot of extra money to spend on their candidate, President Obama and Democratic candidates. In contrast, those who believed these stories about the Prius, instead spent their money on $4/gal. gasoline to feed their Hummers and not their candidates. Obama won and Democratic majorities in Congress increased.

So please, continue to share these stories. There will be another set of elections next year. When gas again reaches $4-$5/gal., again, we'll be happy to see the Prius backed candidates increase Democratic majorities in Congress.

The guy is a troll so have some fun.

Bob Wilson

[Christ]

Originally Posted by bwilson4web

This is part of a plan to make sure the gullible won't buy them and it has worked perfectly! For example, in the 2008 election, the Prius owners had a lot of extra money to spend on their candidate, President Obama and Democratic candidates. In contrast, those who believed these stories about the Prius, instead spent their money on $4/gal. gasoline to feed their Hummers and not their candidates. Obama won and Democratic majorities in Congress increased.

So please, continue to share these stories. There will be another set of elections next year. When gas again reaches $4-$5/gal., again, we'll be happy to see the Prius backed candidates increase Democratic majorities in Congress.

The guy is a troll so have some fun.

Bob Wilson

[Chuck.]

Originally Posted by Hermie

And no, not from emmisions. From MAKING them.

Read this article, and you might want to trade in your Prius for a Hummer. You'll be doing Earth a favor, as well as your wallet.

Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage


Prius Outdoes Hummer in Enviromental Damage
By Chris Demorro
Staff Writer, The Recorder, Central Connecticut State University
March 7, 2007

The Toyota Prius has become the flagship car for those in our society so environmentally conscious that they are willing to spend a premium to show the world how much they care. Unfortunately for them, their ultimate ‘green car’ is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America; it takes more combined energy per Prius to produce than a Hummer.

Before we delve into the seedy underworld of hybrids, you must first understand how a hybrid works. For this, we will use the most popular hybrid on the market, the Toyota Prius.

The Prius is powered by not one, but two engines: a standard 76 horsepower, 1.5-liter gas engine found in most cars today and a battery- powered engine that deals out 67 horsepower and a whooping 295ft/lbs of torque, below 2000 revolutions per minute. Essentially, the Toyota Synergy Drive system, as it is so called, propels the car from a dead stop to up to 30mph. This is where the largest percent of gas is consumed. As any physics major can tell you, it takes more energy to get an object moving than to keep it moving. The battery is recharged through the braking system, as well as when the gasoline engine takes over anywhere north of 30mph. It seems like a great energy efficient and environmentally sound car, right?

You would be right if you went by the old government EPA estimates, which netted the Prius an incredible 60 miles per gallon in the city and 51 miles per gallon on the highway. Unfortunately for Toyota, the government realized how unrealistic their EPA tests were, which consisted of highway speeds limited to 55mph and acceleration of only 3.3 mph per second. The new tests which affect all 2008 models give a much more realistic rating with highway speeds of 80mph and acceleration of 8mph per second. This has dropped the Prius’s EPA down by 25 percent to an average of 45mpg. This now puts the Toyota within spitting distance of cars like the Chevy Aveo, which costs less then half what the Prius costs.

However, if that was the only issue with the Prius, I wouldn’t be writing this article. It gets much worse.
Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.

The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius’ battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist’s nightmare.

“The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside,” said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.
All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn’t end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce ‘nickel foam.’ From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like environmentally sound cars and more like a farce?

Wait, I haven’t even got to the best part yet.

When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50 percent more energy than a Hummer - the Prius’s arch nemesis.

Through a study by CNW Marketing called “Dust to Dust,” the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.

The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer will last three times longer than a Prius and use less combined energy doing it.

So, if you are really an environmentalist - ditch the Prius. Instead, buy one of the most economical cars available a Chevy Aveo and fix that lead foot.

One last fun fact for you: it takes five years to offset the premium price of a Prius. Meaning, you have to wait 60 months to save any money over a non-hybrid car because of lower gas expenses.

YOU LIE!!!

[zjrog]

As I mentioned above, sometimes I feel the apostate around here. I don't like the Prius much (I like the idea of it though), but mainly because of the somewhat haughty/better than you attitude these people give off. EVEN IF THEY AREN'T hypermiling... But because they "did" something...

I'm not gullible enough to not buy a car because of "studies". I don't want a Prius, or other hybrid, simply because I don't want the added expense of another car payment. Especially since I only have one left and hope to never have another. I know I'm not getting EVERY last mile from the fuel I use, but, I'm not trying to burn through all the fuel I can either. (Besides, I bicycled to the polling booth last year)

I'll even admit to being a conservative. I didn't vote for this Hope or Change (and don't care for anything I've seen yet), I didn't vote for the main opposition either... Sorry. I guess my presence here is more an anachronism than I imagined... Oh, I shop at Whole Foods and other stores that support local/organic farmers, as well, and buy from a couple local stands as well (just wish my thumb was more green so I could grow more than crabgrass and weeds in my yard!!!). I carpool as much as possible (public transportation isn't an option for me), and cycling to work isn't either (distance, terrain, lack of adequate lanes). My weekly trips to the city are optimized for freeways instead of city streets, and to limit backtracking. And recycling is FINALLY making it to my location. Might even cut my weekly city trips down. Hmmm, more time for shootin' critters, drinkin' beer and 4 wheelin', yeehaw...

I guess I'm just trying to say that sweeping generalizations about folks can really get in the way of decent and reasonable discourse...

(yes, there is some sarcasm in the above post before someone needs their smelling salts...)