Hypothetical question : churchlady with an EV

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by JSH

Also the CARB plan does not completely ban sales of vehicles with an ICE in 2035. The percentages are ZEV OR PHEV

Quite surprising that bureaucrats have been realizing how stupid it would be to enforce a total ban on ICEs, even though they're still pushing for some sort of electrification with the PHEVs policy.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

Quite surprising that bureaucrats have been realizing how stupid it would be to enforce a total ban on ICEs, even though they're still pushing for some sort of electrification with the PHEVs policy.

There never was a complete ban on sales of ICE in 2035 in the USA. The EU ICE "ban" in 2035 isn't actually a ban either. Just a LOT of news stories that completely misrepresented what is in the regulations.

[redpoint5]

I wonder what criteria must be met to be considered a PHEV? Would the first Prius plug-in with 3 kWh (usable) battery qualify?

What about a standard hybrid, with whatever capacity battery it has, but with the ability to top off from a plug?

EDIT: looks like standard Prius battery is 1.3 kWh.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

I wonder what criteria must be met to be considered a PHEV? Would the first Prius plug-in with 3 kWh (usable) battery qualify?

What about a standard hybrid, with whatever capacity battery it has, but with the ability to top off from a plug?

EDIT: looks like standard Prius battery is 1.3 kWh.

No need to wonder - it is in the hundreds of pages of regulations.

PHEVs have a range based not battery size based requirement. In 2026 the requirement is 50 miles of range (EPA window sticker) and 40 miles on the US06 cycle (Average speed of 48 mph / top speed of 80 mph)

It is also interesting to note that all BEVs will have to have a CCS connector in CARB ZEV states starting in 2026. That brings new light on Tesla's charade about making their proprietary connector the "North American Charging Standard" and their recent decision to put CCS connectors on their Superchargers.

[redpoint5]

Yeesh, the best PHEVs today would struggle to meet the 2026 requirement. I think the RAV4 Prime might be the only one capable of 40 miles of range at 48 MPH?

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Yeesh, the best PHEVs today would struggle to meet the 2026 requirement. I think the RAV4 Prime might be the only one capable of 40 miles of range at 48 MPH?

I hope that doesn't mean all Toyota cars are going to be $42,340 or more, or the equivalent price in 2026 due to inflation.

Makes me wonder which is the better deal, the +$42,000 RAV4 Prime or the +$42,000 bZ4X? Probable the RAV4 due to the name being more understandable (small "bee" capital "zee"... or is it "zed", 4, capital "ex").

[JSH]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Yeesh, the best PHEVs today would struggle to meet the 2026 requirement. I think the RAV4 Prime might be the only one capable of 40 miles of range at 48 MPH?

There are no PHEVs sold in the USA today that meet the 50 mile requirement. The RAV4 Prime falls short with only a 42 mile range.

The only 3 I can think of that did are the BMW i3 REX (72 miles), 2nd Gen Volt (53 miles), and the Polestar 1 (52 miles)

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

I hope that doesn't mean all Toyota cars are going to be $42,340 or more, or the equivalent price in 2026 due to inflation.

No.

1. This only applies to CARB states that have opted into ZEV
2. In 2026 only 35% of cars sold in those states need to be ZEV (BEV, FCEV, PHEV)
3. In 2022 19% of light duty vehicles sold in California were ZEV.

Data here:
https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-repor.../new-zev-sales

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

Makes me wonder which is the better deal, the +$42,000 RAV4 Prime or the +$42,000 bZ4X?

I don't know much about Toyota's EV except that most comments I see about it are negative because it didn't push any boundaries at all.

As I've been saying, the RAV4 Prime is exactly the vehicle manufacturers should have made a decade ago because it has the smallest battery that qualifies for the full federal tax credit.

If someone qualifies for the full credit, their $42k RAV4 Prime costs less than the standard or hybrid RAV4, making it a no-brainer.

Originally Posted by JSH

There are no PHEVs sold in the USA today that meet the 50 mile requirement. The RAV4 Prime falls short with only a 42 mile range.

The only 3 I can think of that did are the BMW i3 REX (72 miles), 2nd Gen Volt (53 miles), and the Polestar 1 (52 miles)

Time for GM to dust off that Voltec platform after that brief mothballing.

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

I don't know much about Toyota's EV except that most comments I see about it are negative because it didn't push any boundaries at all.

As I've been saying, the RAV4 Prime is exactly the vehicle manufacturers should have made a decade ago because it has the smallest battery that qualifies for the full federal tax credit.

If someone qualifies for the full credit, their $42k RAV4 Prime costs less than the standard or hybrid RAV4, making it a no-brainer.

I don't know what the RAV4 Prime does that the bZ4X doesn't except the RAV4 PRIME is AWD standard, and the bZ4X is about $1,500 more expensive if you get the AWD version. EV range is over 200 miles, and I feel there's enough charging infrastructure to make that viable as an only car, at least in my part of the world.

I would assume the bZ4X also gets the full tax credit.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

I don't know what the RAV4 Prime does that the bZ4X doesn't except the RAV4 PRIME is AWD standard, and the bZ4X is about $1,500 more expensive if you get the AWD version. EV range is over 200 miles, and I feel there's enough charging infrastructure to make that viable as an only car, at least in my part of the world.

I would assume the bZ4X also gets the full tax credit.

The RAV4 Prime takes gasoline because it's a hybrid, making it super convenient to take it anywhere at any time.

It also has 300 horsepower compared to 200 on the EV. The EV makes slightly less horsepower than my 17 year old 4-cylinder Acura that weighs a thousand pounds less. So the power to weight ratio is terrible.

People report the highest power they could get out of a DCFC is 88 kW, which is barely more than the 6 year old Chevy Bolt. Apparently it charges much, much slower in colder climates, some saying 10 kW or lower. You might as well be on L2 at that point.

So, the RAV4 has more power, more utility, no range anxiety... the only drawback is you have an annual oil change to perform.