Hypothetical question : churchlady with an EV

[redpoint5]

Having cash now is a bad investment as inflation continually devalues it.

Spending all cash and taking out the largest fixed rate mortgage you could get approved for about 4 years ago would have been the best move.

By pure coincidence, that's roughly what I ended up doing.

No way to predict the market accurately, but my sense is used car prices will continue to fall, and once manufacturers can meet BEV demand the used ones will further drop in price.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Cd

Looking at prices on used Sparks and Bolts also shows that they are about twice as expensive as some of the Leaves i have seen.

I may be able to find a Spark from a private seller for cheap, but I have the impression that the cars are cheap.

The Nissan Leaf has an air-cooled battery with a reputation for early failure. That is why they are cheap along with the limited range even when new.

I had a 2016 Chevy Spark EV. It was GM's compliance car made from 2014 - 2016 with only about 6,000 made. GM changed the batteries 2 or 3 times in that period so there is zero change of any aftermarket support in case of a battery failure. A replacement battery was $22,000 last I checked. (I have a theory that GM has 1 battery on the shelf to meet the legal requirement to offer warranty parts but priced so that nobody will actually buy it).

That said - I liked my Spark. It was a very fun car to drive around town if you can deal with the range. (82 miles EPA with my average about 95 miles summer and 65 miles winter.) It is also very quick with way too much torque unto that open differential which can result in massive torque steer and spinning tires up to about 30 mph. It is downright dangerous in the ran or snow on the stock tires.

My 2017 Bolt is fun like the Spark but bigger and better in about every way.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Piotrsko

Ive seen various mentions of 1,000; 2000 & 5000 charge discharge cycles life on lifepo4 but I dont know the conditions of those lifetimes. 1000 cycles would be +/- 20 years at that useage and in Cali the battery is good for 10 -15 at least. I got ten so far in the Ranger.

Testing of different battery chemistry. Cycled from 100% to 0% to 100% at 0.5C



From this paper:
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/1...45-7111/abae37


The LFP batteries I'm buying for my Ambulance to RV conversion are LFP and rated for 80% Capacity after 4000 Cycles, 100% DOD @1C Rate. They come with a 10 year warranty. I'm buying 2 for 10.24 kWh storage
https://www.currentconnected.com/product/sk48v100/

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Having cash now is a bad investment as inflation continually devalues it.

Spending all cash and taking out the largest fixed rate mortgage you could get approved for about 4 years ago would have been the best move.

By pure coincidence, that's roughly what I ended up doing.

No way to predict the market accurately, but my sense is used car prices will continue to fall, and once manufacturers can meet BEV demand the used ones will further drop in price.

Here's some context:
* 2016 KIA Soul EV, $9,980, with CARFAX
* $998 down
* 60-months @ 8.62%
* around $ 185/ month
* $ 8,982 unpaid balance
* Cost @ 8.62%, $9756
* Total out of pocket, $ 12,098
* Hidden 14.96% finance charge ( $ 1,343 ) never mentioned ( just like GMAC in 1982 )
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Denton Teachers Credit Union 12-month Cd, @ 4.33% APY.
* $10,000 CD, rolled over, each maturity
* $ 998 down
* $ 158 / month, 60-months.
* $ 9, 537-paid, plus $998 down + $ 10,535 total paid.
* $ 555 cost of loan
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* $2,360.78 in paid interest over 60-month term.
* $10,000 has become $ 12,360.78
* The loan cost $ 555, but I earned $ 2,360 at the same time, for a $ 1,586 net gain.
* $ 555 vs $ 1,117 w/ CARFAX
* CARFAX works out at 21.22% simple interest vs 6.19% at the credit union.
* @ 5% fractional reserve requirement, the credit union can lend out $100,000 to the local economy.

[redpoint5]

I'm always on the fence about financing cars. If the rates are extremely low, then generally the stock market will outperform the finance charges you're paying.

On the other hand, when you finance a car, the lender requires full coverage insurance, which is much more expensive than liability only.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

I'm always on the fence about financing cars. If the rates are extremely low, then generally the stock market will outperform the finance charges you're paying.

On the other hand, when you finance a car, the lender requires full coverage insurance, which is much more expensive than liability only.

That really depends on the car and the person.

My 2017 Bolt was valued at $24,000 when I purchased it. My insurance for the Bolt is $282 every 6 months. Of that $32 is Comprehensive and $89 is Collision so I would save $242 a year to drop full coverage and go to liability only. It seems quite foolish to me to risk $23,000 to save $242.

Now if I was an 18 year old with a bunch of tickets trying to insure a Corvette - that might add up to some decent savings to drop full coverage.

[redpoint5]

I generally don't own anything worth more than about $6k. With a $2k deductible, I'm risking $4k. I'd rather insurance not know about something stupid I did to my car, and just repair it myself.

If I owned a $40k Tesla, I'd spring for full coverage.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

I generally don't own anything worth more than about $6k. With a $2k deductible, I'm risking $4k. I'd rather insurance not know about something stupid I did to my car, and just repair it myself.

If I owned a $40k Tesla, I'd spring for full coverage.

My 2004 Astro van is worth $6,000. Insurance for it is $113 every 6 months for full coverage. Comprehensive is $9 and Collision is $11 - each with a $100 deductible. So I'm spending $40 a year to not risk $5900

(I thought the Bolt had $1,000 deductibles but a quick check shows they are $100 and $250)

[redpoint5]

I just got the KBB value for my newest vehicle, the 2006 Acura TSX, and it booked at exactly $6,000.

You end up paying more on your insurance premiums making a claim, so there's a hidden cost that makes full coverage insurance less straight forward value calculation.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

I just got the KBB value for my newest vehicle, the 2006 Acura TSX, and it booked at exactly $6,000.

You end up paying more on your insurance premiums making a claim, so there's a hidden cost that makes full coverage insurance less straight forward value calculation.

They're one of the entities I looked at recently for residual values on used cars.
The takeaway for the present state of the 'market' is that prices are extremely inflated, at about 200% of what they 'ought' to be.
I located my pre-'COVID' used BEV prices, and you can see how 'insane' the market is right now.
' pencils & paper, what a wonderful thing!'