I.C.E./B.E.V price parity today?

[freebeard]

The premise is:

We're gonna have million-mile batteries soon

They won't necessarily be Li-Ion.

Researchers at the Samsung Advanced Institute of Technology (SAIT) and the Samsung R&D Institute Japan (SRJ) decided to remove the lithium metal anodes used in solid-state batteries and replace them with a thin silver-carbon layer. It’s those lithium-metal anodes that cause issues with the batteries. They grow dendrites (tiny crystal spikes) that bore through the electrolyte and cause a short circuit during charging. Hence the low life expectancy of a solid-state battery.

The researchers say that using silver-carbon instead of lithium metal in a prototype pouch yields a battery with a higher capacity, lengthens the cycle life, and makes the battery safer. The layer of silver-carbon measures only five micrometers thick, but if it can accomplish in the real world what the Samsung team pulled off in the lab, it could substantively change EVs in the future.

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/a31...tery-revealed/

[JSH]

I'm very skeptical that a battery of any chemistry will have a useful life of 50 years. I hope to be alive to be proven wrong.

[freebeard]

Solid-state batteries feature significant capacity for energy storage, but they typically encounter numerous problems that cause them to degrade over time and become less efficient. Liquid-state batteries can deliver energy more efficiently, without the long-term decay of sold-state devices, but they either fall short on high energy demands or require significant resources to constantly heat the electrodes and keep them molten.

The metallic electrodes in the team’s battery can remain liquefied at a temperature of 20 degrees Celsius (68 degrees Fahrenheit), the lowest operating temperature ever recorded for a liquid-metal battery, according to the researchers. This represents a major change, because current liquid-metal batteries must be kept at temperatures above 240 degrees Celsius.

“This battery can provide all the benefits of both solid- and liquid-state — including more energy, increased stability and flexibility — without the respective drawbacks, while also saving energy,” said Yu Ding, a postdoctoral researcher

https://news.utexas.edu/2020/07/06/n...ng-the-future/

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Older batteries may still serve for stationary applications as long as they're less weight-sensitive, and their residual value before they're ultimately recycled remains more affordable than buying newer ones for a similar energy storage capacity.

[Piotrsko]

Um, Edison batteries last until the electrode disintegrated, you just need to change the electrolyte. There are anecdotal examples of 100 year old ones still in use on railway signal systems.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by Piotrsko

Um, Edison batteries last until the electrode disintegrated, you just need to change the electrolyte.

Is that any easy for the electrode to disintegrate on them? AFAIK there are some Edison lamps which are more than 100-year old and still working properly since day one.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Piotrsko

Um, Edison batteries last until the electrode disintegrated, you just need to change the electrolyte. There are anecdotal examples of 100 year old ones still in use on railway signal systems.

Jay Leno has some old cars with the "original" batteries. Yes, all you have to do is keep swapping out the electrolyte.

I'll remind you that modern electric car batteries are made up of thousands of individual sealed cells and swapping electrolyte isn't a practical solution.

[freebeard]

Bug or feature?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_battery

A flow battery, or redox flow battery (after reduction–oxidation), is a type of electrochemical cell where chemical energy is provided by two chemical components dissolved in liquids contained within the system and separated by a membrane.[2][3] Ion exchange (accompanied by flow of electric current) occurs through the membrane while both liquids circulate in their own respective space. Cell voltage is chemically determined by the Nernst equation and ranges, in practical applications, from 1.0 to 2.2 volts.

A flow battery may be used like a fuel cell (where the spent fuel is extracted and new fuel is added to the system) or like a rechargeable battery (where an electric power source drives regeneration of the fuel). While it has technical advantages over conventional rechargeables, such as potentially separable liquid tanks and near unlimited longevity, current implementations are comparatively less powerful and require more sophisticated electronics.

The energy capacity is a function of the electrolyte volume (amount of liquid electrolyte), and the power is a function of the surface area of the electrodes.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by JSH

I'll remind you that modern electric car batteries are made up of thousands of individual sealed cells and swapping electrolyte isn't a practical solution.

Considering their chemistry is also not the same as the older ones, I would also not hold my breath for it to be a safe procedure to do at home.

[deluxx]

Id never drive a battery car that stops me from killing the engine on glides, I think the Nissan Leaf is the only hybrid/electric/ORhybrid car I would like and drive.