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Old 06-24-2020, 04:03 PM   #71 (permalink)
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10-years

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Originally Posted by jojogunn View Post
A few things more to consider:
Kona battery warranty stops at 10 years. At that point, the new battery cost will make the car not as viable as an ICE Kona. The feds state you have to support a vehicle for 7 years. Hyundai eventually will drop replacement batteries, and nothing you can do about it.
Taxes? Here in california, our road taxes are stolen for the general fund. Losing that money will generate new taxes and schemes for the shortfall-
Things like mandatory satellite tracking of all vehicles, and you get a bill for miles driven has been put forth out here.
I suspect that the ICE powertrain warranty, and availability will also be toast at 10-years out.
Tesla is looking at a 20-year lifespan for their batteries. That's 7-years beyond the statistical life of the average ICE vehicle.
Perhaps 3rd- party battery suppliers will fill what is now a market void.
The Kona ICE can't run on renewable energy. By 2025, BEV is predicted to be at price parity with ICE. After that, there's no compelling economic argument for 'pistons.' I doubt we'll ever experience electrical price volatility as we see with petroleum. Nor a $7,000,000,000/ year, cost to protect access to foreign oil.
8,000 Cadillac owners are facing the specter of eventually replacing a $ 20,000 ,hand-built in Bowling Green, Kentucky, V-8 engine. That's engine anxiety if there ever was any.

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Old 06-24-2020, 06:36 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jojogunn View Post
A few things more to consider:
Kona battery warranty stops at 10 years. At that point, the new battery cost will make the car not as viable as an ICE Kona. The feds state you have to support a vehicle for 7 years. Hyundai eventually will drop replacement batteries, and nothing you can do about it.
Just like some people resort to makeshift repairs and eventual adaptations to keep older ICE-powered cars working, including engine and transmission swaps, it wouldn't really surprise me if a similar situation becomes common for EVs in general. Not sure when such refurbishments would reach a cost parity with ICE though.
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Old 06-24-2020, 06:57 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
Just like some people resort to makeshift repairs and eventual adaptations to keep older ICE-powered cars working, including engine and transmission swaps, it wouldn't really surprise me if a similar situation becomes common for EVs in general. Not sure when such refurbishments would reach a cost parity with ICE though.
I agree fully with that.

While manufacturers may not directly support replacements, alternatives already exist for select upgrades, and the aftermarket has a way of finding demand.

Speaking from the perspective of my i3, early versions have already been upgraded with larger capacity packs. The individual cells the packs are composed of are a standardized packaging supported by Samsung, and like the AA batteries you can buy off the shelf from any manufacturer, they hold no patent on the dimensions or use of their cells. Costs continue to decline as well.
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Old 06-24-2020, 07:04 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Speaking from the perspective of my i3, early versions have already been upgraded with larger capacity packs. The individual cells the packs are composed of are a standardized packaging supported by Samsung, and like the AA batteries you can buy off the shelf from any manufacturer, they hold no patent on the dimensions or use of their cells. Costs continue to decline as well.
Just like we used to see flathead engines being replaced with OHV ones, and now even DOHC made its way into restomods, while their maintenance would seem too expensive before.

Considering a more conservative approach, I haven't seen a Jeep CJ-3B with its stock Hurricane engine for a while.

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Old 06-25-2020, 01:32 AM   #75 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jojogunn View Post
A few things more to consider:
Kona battery warranty stops at 10 years. At that point, the new battery cost will make the car not as viable as an ICE Kona. The feds state you have to support a vehicle for 7 years. Hyundai eventually will drop replacement batteries, and nothing you can do about it.
A. The battery doesn't automatically fail when the warranty runs out.
B. There is not a minimum amount of time that a company has to supply parts. Federal law says they have to supply parts as long as the product is under warranty. That's it. Once the last vehicle is out of warranty they can stop making parts.
C. Just because they offer parts doesn't mean they have to offer them at a reasonable price. A replacement battery pack for my Spark EV was $23,000. At that cost they can put one on the shelf and never sell it.

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Taxes? Here in california, our road taxes are stolen for the general fund. Losing that money will generate new taxes and schemes for the shortfall-
Things like mandatory satellite tracking of all vehicles, and you get a bill for miles driven has been put forth out here.
Oregon has a similar program called OReGO that I've been part of since the beginning. It works well and I think charging road usage fees by the mile instead of a gas tax makes a lot of sense.

You don't have to use the GPS tracker but it has benefits. With the tracker you only pay for miles driven in the state on paved roads. Without the track you pay based on odometer readings. You can also set up parental control where it will notify you if a certain speed is exceeded or the car goes out a set range.

California and Washington are doing trials and 14 western states are looking into a joint system. (A sat in on the recent OReGO quarterly meeting since it was done via Zoom due to COVID) I expect it will be the future.
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Old 06-25-2020, 01:40 PM   #76 (permalink)
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Just put road maintenance into the general fund budget and collect it as income or property taxes from everyone. Even if you don't have a driver's liscense you benefit from roads and highways as much as anyone else. Like Hoffa always said, anything you have came on a truck. The amount of time and waste in trying to split up levels of road usage and tax accordingly seems silly. Why is it just this area where this standard is applied? Why wouldn't this say apply to the schools? Sure education benefits even people without children, but like I pointed out so do the roads.
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Old 06-25-2020, 03:13 PM   #77 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Just put road maintenance into the general fund budget and collect it as income or property taxes from everyone. Even if you don't have a driver's liscense you benefit from roads and highways as much as anyone else. Like Hoffa always said, anything you have came on a truck. The amount of time and waste in trying to split up levels of road usage and tax accordingly seems silly. Why is it just this area where this standard is applied? Why wouldn't this say apply to the schools? Sure education benefits even people without children, but like I pointed out so do the roads.
I agree. We should set income taxes and property taxes at a level sufficient to fund our budget, have everything go into a general fund and then allow our elected officials do their job and create a budget. However, that seems to be a minority opinion and the trend is to more and more specific taxes that go into specific funds.

If we are going to try to fund road maintenance through a specific tax / fund I think fee per mile works well and fairly charges people based on how much they use the road.
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Old 06-25-2020, 03:33 PM   #78 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hersbird View Post
Just put road maintenance into the general fund budget and collect it as income or property taxes from everyone. Even if you don't have a driver's liscense you benefit from roads and highways as much as anyone else. Like Hoffa always said, anything you have came on a truck. The amount of time and waste in trying to split up levels of road usage and tax accordingly seems silly.
This would be the best approach.

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