I give up.

[payne171]

I no longer own a Honda Accord Hybrid. Very shortly after buying it, the IMA warning light started going off. I have read some reports that this is not uncommon; however, I thought it was better to check out so I took it to the local Honda dealer.

It turns out, the wrong lubricant was used when repairing a leak in the air conditioning system. The HAH uses an electric AC compressor in order to keep the AC running during engine shutoff at stops. It requires $100 per bottle non-conductive lube. The incorrect lube was causing a short that made an intermittent short. Eventually, according to the Honda tech, the short would cause the whole hybrid system to shut down.

I found a Honda dealership envelope in the glove compartment. I called them and asked if they had any service history on my car and gave them the VIN. They said they had inspected the AC due to the owner complaining that it didn't work (just outside of the 3 year warranty, of course). They found a problem and gave the owner a repair quote. The owner left without repair because he or she thought the price was too high.

I can only assume that the owner then took the car to Joe Shmoe AC repair, and Joe tried to repair it like it was a normal AC.

The end result is that the Honda tech tried to flush the system; it didn't work. The only option with guaranteed success would be to replace the entire AC, at a price of $3700. Fortunately, the dealer took the car back with no hassle.

This raises a couple of alarms with me:
#1- $3700! I realize it helps efficiency and keeps the AC running even when the engine isn't, but holy crap! This is one BIG drawback when it comes to the long term viability of hybrids. Granted, I in no way blame Honda for this particular problem, but if the technology is that pricey, they will not last long because they will cost too much to repair relative to their value. Worst case scenario repair on a car is probably engine or transmission; rebuilding either one is no more than half that.
#2- Exclusive repair. This makes me realize that much of a very complicated car can only be worked on by dealerships. Maybe this is why Toyota was willing to produce a car like the Prius in the early days of hybrids; they knew no one else would be able to work on them, and they could profit at the service shops (I'm a little sceptical of this theory, though. If T and Honda were trying to make big dough at service, they wouldn't make such reliable cars. They'd make Chryslers.)

I am not going to own a hybrid if I can help it. The car is primarily for my wife. If she still wants one, we will only own it with an extended warranty that covers bumper to bumper for as long as we have it. I think I'm going to start E-shopping for a VW with a TDi emblem on it.

[Daox]

So... your AC compressor pump is bad and they want to replace the entire system... that doesn't really make sense to me. I'm sure the pump isn't cheap, normal AC pumps aren't that cheap either. But, to think that the entire system needs to be replaced is rediculous.

[cfg83]

Daox -

Originally Posted by Daox

So... your AC compressor pump is bad and they want to replace the entire system... that doesn't really make sense to me. I'm sure the pump isn't cheap, normal AC pumps aren't that cheap either. But, to think that the entire system needs to be replaced is rediculous.

If it's the lubricant, wouldn't that have contaminated the whole system? Wouldn't a new compressor be at risk or recontamination? When I sold my CRX to my friend in Arizona I had an A/C installed for $1500 by an A/C shop. 20 years after my CRX I can easily imagine a $3700 dealer replacement bill.

payne171 -

Sorry about your A/C woes. I fear multi-thousand dollar repairs like that.

CarloSW2

[Ryland]

The compressor is a $650 part and that should have been the only part that needed to be replaced, so I could see a $1,000 bill to replace the compressor and flush the whole system, check it for leaks and refill it, but that still seems high, there should also be a sticker under the hood stating what type of refrigerant should be used, bright yellow right next to the A/C compressor.

If you end up getting a VW I think you are going to find the same thing as you found with your hybrid, mechanics who don't want to work on it or who do then screw things up, at least judging from the VW's I have owned and worked on and the friends who have VW's who have to call around to all the shops to find someone who is willing to buy the special tools that only VW uses.

[roflwaffle]

What kind of fluid can't they pull out of the system? I don't know what wouldn't get pulled out under vacuum....

[Frank Lee]

SO glad I don't need or want A/C!

[mcrews]

Need to throw a cold blanket of all the hysteria.
1. I had my brake fluid contaminated w/ very little oil on my toyota avalon, by a novice mechanic.
2. the entire brake system shut down in about 15 miles.
3. The dealership towed it in. EVERYTHING had to be replace.
4. yes it was expense, (toyo pd) but it had to be done.
5. what I learned was that each fluid (brake, tranny, oil, rear axle, etc) is designed to work a specific way at a specific heat, at a specific pressure, etc.
6. when any system get contaminated it has to be completely flushed or completely repaired. So systems much more so than others.
7. Parts cost money. unique parts cost more.
8. If dealerships are such 'unbelievable' sources of profit, then we should go buy one. But i believe you will find the local MCDonalds is the one really making a killing.
9. Given the advent of forums and comment boards, IF in fact, they could have done the job for less, they probably would have.

[cfg83]

mcrews -

That's kind of what I was thinking, but let's say the sake of argument that you could flush and replace the compressor all by itself. If you were the dealer, would you be willing to warranty the repair with a system that has been "compromised"? If you were the customer, would you be willing to get the repair done with the apriori knowledge that your $650 compressor might be at risk?

Now, if you pulled a compressor from a Pick-A-Part and handed it over to a private A/C shop or DIY, then you may be willing to roll the dice.

CarloSW2

[payne171]

Forgive me if I wasn't clear on a few parts. To respond:
The compressor would have to be replaced, obviously. The tech told me it was $1000. The problem with just replacing the compressor is that if any of the old fluid was in the system anywhere, it could still short out. The only way to guarantee it was out would be to replace the whole system. If the car was paid off, or if this was my problem, I would likely have bought a junkyard compressor and tried that first ($150 on car-part.com).

As for McDonald's, I think the last I heard was that they were losing money quickly, so much so that they had to sell Chipotle, their only profitable division. I can't imagine franchises can be that big of a cash cow or the parent company would want their cut. Car dealerships being moneymakers? The name before Honda on the signs can also be seen on buildings at Columbus area colleges.
Finally, what drivetrain technology is there on a VW diesel that hasn't been proven for 50+ years? I would say direct injection, but MBenz put it on some cars in the late 50's. And, with proper maintenance, 300k+ miles with nothing save maybe a turbo rebuild (remember, the diesel VW are built in Germany, not Mexico). Anybody trust their thousand dollar battery that long? Don't get me wrong, I do believe that hybrids and the EV's that follow are part of the answer to our energy problems, but not MY part.

[dcb]

if only I had invested
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