Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > EcoModding Central
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-14-2011, 12:34 PM   #11 (permalink)
More s'miles per gallon
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: TN
Posts: 14

BF - '11 Ford Fiesta Hatch SE
90 day: 41.1 mpg (US)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
This why car mfg's are taking these parasitic devices off the belt and powering them with electricity. OEM's have been trying to go to 42v for the reason.

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 05-14-2011, 12:36 PM   #12 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: USA Northeast
Posts: 3
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks guys, sounds like it's not worth it. If it will only give me 3 or 4 hours and will take just as long to charge, it will be too much hassle. Maybe I'll just start with the power steering and see how that goes.

I'm confused about a few things. I'm getting the impression that underdrive pulley's either hurt your mileage (by bending the belt) or do not make any noticeable improvement. I thought underdrive pulleys were promoted to improve both horsepower and efficiency? I thought the smaller, lighter pulley was supposed to have less angular mass and therefore use less energy to rotate. At the same time, it is supposed to give the crankshaft more leverage over the other belt components which should reduce the resistance seen by the engine. Is this not true?

Also, I don't understand why I won't save anything by running the belt only part time. I thought that the alternator always put drag on the engine even when the battery was fully charged. I figured that by running the alternator only when the battery needed charging, I wouldn't be wasting that drag the rest of the time.

What are suspenders?
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2011, 03:54 PM   #13 (permalink)
Cyborg ECU
 
California98Civic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Coastal Southern California
Posts: 5,233

Black and Green - '98 Honda Civic DX Coupe
Team Honda
90 day: 59.78 mpg (US)

Black and Red - '00 Nashbar Custom built eBike
90 day: 3671.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,869
Thanked 1,565 Times in 1,064 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 07aveoSVM View Post
What are suspenders?
I think that was just a joke (therefore the "rolled-eyes" icon). But I hope someone can answer the question about parasitic draw on the motor simply by keeping the alternator belt attached at all. Wouldn't the greatest gain be had from removal of the belt, not simply shutting off the alternator? Wouldn't that require manual removal (a pain) or some sort of clutch mechanism?
__________________


See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.

  Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2011, 09:32 PM   #14 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Ryland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Western Wisconsin
Posts: 3,904

honda cb125 - '74 Honda CB 125 S1
90 day: 79.71 mpg (US)

green wedge - '81 Commuter Vehicles Inc. Commuti-Car

Blue VX - '93 Honda Civic VX
Thanks: 867
Thanked 432 Times in 353 Posts
The main idea as I understand it of an under-drive pulley is when you are pretending that you own a race car and you have put so many after market parts on that it no longer idles at a reasonable speed and you drive with high revs you install an under drive pulley because the engine is always spinning faster, but it is true that the larger the pulley the less energy is wasted bending the belt and the looser you can have the belt as well because it's making more contact with the pulley.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 07aveoSVM View Post
I'm confused about a few things. I'm getting the impression that underdrive pulley's either hurt your mileage (by bending the belt) or do not make any noticeable improvement. I thought underdrive pulleys were promoted to improve both horsepower and efficiency? I thought the smaller, lighter pulley was supposed to have less angular mass and therefore use less energy to rotate. At the same time, it is supposed to give the crankshaft more leverage over the other belt components which should reduce the resistance seen by the engine. Is this not true?
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2015, 06:19 PM   #15 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hey Guys,

I have a 1.9l diesel on a mini VW pickup and have been looking to delete the alt, build a sloping bed cover a la Phil Knox, and integrate a solar panel into the bed cover, add a deep cell battery, and LED lighting. Since the diesel doesn't have an ignition system but relies on compression only for detonation, is this an option to delete the alt completely and feed all electrical requirements from the solar panel. which would sit outside all day to recharge the deep cell? I rarely drive nights anyway. Seems I've seen a 10% increase in mpg from deleting the alt, plus adding the sloping bed back to the tailgate, and then adding a second structure off the tailgate for the second low pressure area there would add another 10-15%. Doable?
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2015, 06:37 PM   #16 (permalink)
EcoModding Newb
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 7,071

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 28.07 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 27.08 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,331
Thanked 2,748 Times in 2,034 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by King cody View Post
Hey Guys,

I have a 1.9l diesel on a mini VW pickup and have been looking to delete the alt, build a sloping bed cover a la Phil Knox, and integrate a solar panel into the bed cover, add a deep cell battery, and LED lighting. Since the diesel doesn't have an ignition system but relies on compression only for detonation, is this an option to delete the alt completely and feed all electrical requirements from the solar panel. which would sit outside all day to recharge the deep cell? I rarely drive nights anyway. Seems I've seen a 10% increase in mpg from deleting the alt, plus adding the sloping bed back to the tailgate, and then adding a second structure off the tailgate for the second low pressure area there would add another 10-15%. Doable?
My advice is to leave the alternator in place and figure out how to switch it on and off. The pulley has so little drag as to have an unmeasurable effect on MPG. I doubt the truck would run without electricity since the "ignition" that your key controls will kill it when turned off. My truck uses an electric fuel pump, so it needs a good electricity source at all times.

I'm ashamed to say that I don't know how most diesels turn off when the key is turned off. I assume some sort of solenoid opens a fuel valve when on, and then closes the valve when turned off.
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2015, 07:43 PM   #17 (permalink)
Furry Furfag
 
Baltothewolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Apple Valley
Posts: 2,084

Winsight - '00 Honda Insight
90 day: 56.69 mpg (US)

Miaderp - '95 Mazda Miata
90 day: 28.53 mpg (US)
Thanks: 67
Thanked 406 Times in 311 Posts
What is the best deep cycle battery to get anyway? Like for an insight.
__________________

  Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2015, 08:50 PM   #18 (permalink)
Cyborg ECU
 
California98Civic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Coastal Southern California
Posts: 5,233

Black and Green - '98 Honda Civic DX Coupe
Team Honda
90 day: 59.78 mpg (US)

Black and Red - '00 Nashbar Custom built eBike
90 day: 3671.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,869
Thanked 1,565 Times in 1,064 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
My advice is to leave the alternator in place and figure out how to switch it on and off. The pulley has so little drag as to have an unmeasurable effect on MPG. I doubt the truck would run without electricity since the "ignition" that your key controls will kill it when turned off. My truck uses an electric fuel pump, so it needs a good electricity source at all times. ....
I agree. My car is on such a switch. And I have an Odyssey deep cycle battery (excellent). The beauty of the switch is twofold: when I need more range I can just turn the alt on and (2) whenever I am breaking I can turn the alt on and have a crude kind of regenerative breaking system. I have an onboard charger and plugin at night. But I imagine you could use solar panels, though it will be hard to generate enough power quickly enough in the time you have that you are not driving around.
__________________


See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.

  Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2015, 01:18 AM   #19 (permalink)
Spaced out...
 
spacemanspif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Dirty Jersey
Posts: 748

The New Focus - '07 Ford Focus ZX5
90 day: 32.44 mpg (US)
Thanks: 142
Thanked 204 Times in 148 Posts
I always thought that the diesel injectors were electronically controlled and turning the key back stopped them from firing, thus, stopping the engine. Even on old ones there must have been some kind of timing device to control the injectors, otherwise they'd be shooting fuel in all the time...

I like the solar panel bed cover idea. Pair it with multiple deep cycle batteries mounted in the bed and you would have quite a long range between charges from grid power. Don't forget that you still need a belt to turn the waterpump!
__________________
-Mike

2007 Ford Focus ZX5 - 91k - SGII, pending upper and lower grill bocks - auto trans
1987 Monte Carlo SS - 5.3/4L80E swap - 13.67 @ 106
2007 Ford Focus Estate - 230k - 33mpg - Retired 4/2018
1995 Saturn SL2 - 256K miles - 44mpg - Retired 9/2014

Cost to Operate Spreadsheet for "The New Focus"

  Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2015, 08:34 AM   #20 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
oldtamiyaphile's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,463

UFI - '12 Fiat 500 Twinair
Team Turbocharged!
90 day: 40.3 mpg (US)

Jeep - '05 Jeep Wrangler Renegade
90 day: 18.09 mpg (US)

R32 - '89 Nissan Skyline

STiG - '16 Renault Trafic 140dCi Energy
90 day: 30.99 mpg (US)

Prius - '05 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 50.25 mpg (US)

Premodded - '49 Ford Freighter
90 day: 13.48 mpg (US)

F-117 - '10 Proton Arena GLSi
Pickups
Mitsubishi
90 day: 36.72 mpg (US)

Ralica - '85 Toyota Celica ST
90 day: 25.85 mpg (US)
Thanks: 307
Thanked 428 Times in 302 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
My advice is to leave the alternator in place and figure out how to switch it on and off. The pulley has so little drag as to have an unmeasurable effect on MPG. I doubt the truck would run without electricity since the "ignition" that your key controls will kill it when turned off. My truck uses an electric fuel pump, so it needs a good electricity source at all times.
Didn't Darin test this? IRC he found a 5% gain by switching the alt off, but another 5% (10% total) with the belt removed in his Metro. I suspect a larger engine won't see as much benefit.

__________________






  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com