If the US made the standard, standard

[cleanspeed1]

C'mon Frank, you know that the first rule of Big Douchery is "unplug brain and conscience"

Second Rule is "No Filter Required"

[shovel]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

me, I feel stupid riding around in such things and I often ask myself "Doesn't that guy (in x SUV, PU, Hummer, open pipe chopper, etc.) feel like the biggest douche on the planet?"

Sure, but we all necessarily make some impact.

It would be valid to argue that another (existing) life form on Earth could hypothetically become as prolific as us - at the expense of the planet's ecology - but it wouldn't be burdened with a conscience and therefore would simply consume and adapt until the literal limits of the ecosystem reigned it in. At no point would it feel like a douche. When seen in that context, it's a little douchey of the universe to expect me to individually take any responsibility at all, when a wildly successful species of fungus could just eat up the whole planet without even the slightest pang of guilt.

I know how the above represents me, but I still believe it's a valid point.

To that end, I drive a v8 powered SUV. At face value, it burns a lot of gasoline when I drive it and someone in a Yaris has probably pointed at me and said "Check out that douche!". Sure, but it's hardly the whole story. It's 10 years old and with good care I'll get another 10 out of it, reducing the impact of disposal, manufacture and shipping another new vehicle or two in that timeframe. And that's still not the whole story - we live in a multifaceted world.

How many hypermilers have ecomodded their babymaker?

[Frank Lee]

How many hypermilers have ecomodded their babymaker?

Not modded... but adjusted the nut behind the wheel?!?

[cbaber]

I feel that in the very near future there will only be a few models left in production available with true manual transmissions. Everything is going automatic or semi-automatic with those stupid paddle-shifters.

To me, driving a manual is the only option. Never have, and never will own and automatic. Sure its nice to just cruise without having to worry about shifting, but I do not get bothered by driving. Driving is not a chore to me. I get a certain joy out of operating any kind of motor vehicle and its only fully experienced when I can feel and control every inch of the car, including the powertrain.

The up and coming generation will likely kill the group we know as gearheads. Kids these days worry more about posting to twitter than they do about how many valves per cylinder their engine has or if a lower final drive ratio will help their 1/4 mile times. And I beleive ecomodders are part of the gearhead group because the focus is all about the cars, but with different goals.

[shovel]

Originally Posted by cbaber

To me, driving a manual is the only option. Never have, and never will own and automatic. Sure its nice to just cruise without having to worry about shifting, but I do not get bothered by driving. Driving is not a chore to me. I get a certain joy out of operating any kind of motor vehicle and its only fully experienced when I can feel and control every inch of the car, including the powertrain.

I hear this a lot from shift enthusiasts, but none of them seem to like my idea of eliminating the ECU and just manually firing off the fuel injectors and spark plugs with steering wheel mounted trigger switches. You could even have a remote shock reservoir built into a Kegel wedge that lets you control shock damping on-the-fly!

Originally Posted by cbaber

Kids these days.

Worst thing about Kids These Days® is how they're always on my lawn, makin' me miss Matlock and such.

[Frank Lee]

Originally Posted by shovel

Sure, but we all necessarily make some impact.

It would be valid to argue that another (existing) life form on Earth could hypothetically become as prolific as us - at the expense of the planet's ecology - but it wouldn't be burdened with a conscience and therefore would simply consume and adapt until the literal limits of the ecosystem reigned it in. At no point would it feel like a douche. When seen in that context, it's a little douchey of the universe to expect me to individually take any responsibility at all, when a wildly successful species of fungus could just eat up the whole planet without even the slightest pang of guilt.

I know how the above represents me, but I still believe it's a valid point.

I believe this is what churches teach- do whatever the heck you want; as long as you believe and repent it'll be OK in the end?

That's a pretty cool "out" though- I think I will adopt it and apply it to whatever I find convenient, such as: Hmmm, I think that x person is too dumb to live and I will remove him from the living. Why not? It's OK in the animal kingdom!

[brucey]

When I saw the title, I thought this was a 'metric vs SAE' thread. And I thought "Oh no! I use metric bits even on standard sizes cause at least they make sense."

[shovel]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

I believe this is what churches teach- do whatever the heck you want; as long as you believe and repent it'll be OK in the end?

That's a pretty cool "out" though- I think I will adopt it and apply it to whatever I find convenient, such as: Hmmm, I think that x person is too dumb to live and I will remove him from the living. Why not? It's OK in the animal kingdom!

It bears mentioning that I'm here and have demonstrated both interest and participation in impact-reduction behaviors - and can be safely assumed I carry this with me everywhere I go. It's nonetheless important for us to understand how our behaviors scale, and what is or is not realistic.

If you're celibate, eat municipal waste and pass pure oxygen, throw all the stones you want.

So in the really real world, people won't give up automatics. Nor should they - instead of suggesting we take a step backward on transmission design, why don't we suggest eliminating the transmission entirely? I don't see much development happening on external combustion engines which don't care what fuel they burn/discharge/accumulate, don't require any sort of transmission whatsoever, and should require far fewer parts (and less weight) than the powertrains we're accustomed to in our cars today. Commenting that people "should" be able to operate a manual transmission is comparable to commenting that they "should" be able to saddle a horse or program a VCR to record America's Funniest Home Videos...

[redpoint5]

As to the OPs question, fuel economy would go down overall if everyone drove manuals. I consider my dad above average in operating a manual, but even he revs higher, and holds gears longer than efficiency would dictate.

Originally Posted by shovel

It would be valid to argue that another (existing) life form on Earth could hypothetically become as prolific as us - at the expense of the planet's ecology - but it wouldn't be burdened with a conscience and therefore would simply consume and adapt until the literal limits of the ecosystem reigned it in. At no point would it feel like a douche. When seen in that context, it's a little douchey of the universe to expect me to individually take any responsibility at all, when a wildly successful species of fungus could just eat up the whole planet without even the slightest pang of guilt.

Quite well said. I'm always amazed at how much effort people are willing to to expend trying to force a change in others behavior, and at how little effort is given to changing their own.

Fact: Not a single thing is "sustainable". Given that change is inevitable, the best human effort can achieve is to alter the duration of whatever it is we wish to sustain. Even a person living the most meager of existences in a mud hut will kill trillions of organisms and consume enormous resources in a lifetime. Are they too, "douche bags"?

Originally Posted by shovel

How many hypermilers have ecomodded their babymaker?

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Not modded... but adjusted the nut behind the wheel?!?

I LOLed.

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

I believe this is what churches teach- do whatever the heck you want; as long as you believe and repent it'll be OK in the end?

Which church have you been attending Frank? I've yet to see a doctrine of "do whatever the heck you want" preached by any religion or government. Generally speaking, the whole aim of religion and government is to define what actions are permissible. Perhaps you were thinking of the atheist philosopher Nietzsche, who said you should strive to become who you are. In other words, do what you want and don't feel bad about it.

That's a pretty cool "out" though- I think I will adopt it and apply it to whatever I find convenient, such as: Hmmm, I think that x person is too dumb to live and I will remove him from the living. Why not? It's OK in the animal kingdom!

So which is it; we are governed by the same laws that the animal kingdom are bound to, or we are held to some sort of moral code?

[kir_kenix]

I prefer driving a manual as well, but newer AT trannys are outpacing manuals for mpg. I've driven my wifes '10 VW Jetta TDI with an AT on 55+ mpg trips. Effecient 6 speed manual transmissions are here to stay and I have a feeling that most manuals are going to get tossed out the door by auto makers.

What I would really like to buy is a regular cab, 2wd, 1/2 ton pickup with an I4 diesel, manual trans, cloth bench seats, manual windows/doors/seats/etc, has 15" steel wheels, that retails for $25k. It should be reliable and easy to get 30+ mpg out of. You can't tell me that GM couldn't build something like this...because they figured it out in the '80s with a V8 6.2l.