If the US made the standard, standard

[Thymeclock]

Originally Posted by shovel

Clearly in response to your baseless accusation of ignorance, directly under which it appeared in my post. It was intended as a reminder that none of us knows enough about each other to say "obviously you are ignorant".

If your irritation at the mention of it is not based in ignorance, then it is rooted in denial.

The nerve you've touched has nothing to do with German history, but rather that many a good idea gets debased by someone trying to associate it with a universally negative idea.

Fact: The idea of a "people's car" (the literal translation of volkswagen) was conceived as a socialist idea and ideal.

Fact: It was first produced by a National Socialist (NAZI) state.

Fact: The association is one of historical record.

It irritates you that I made any mention of the historical relevance of the origins and history of the "people's car". (Hence, your citation of "Godwin's law", insinuating that anyone who mentions the Nazi state or its influence on modern society is somehow forbidden, or always inappropriate).

The concept of a simplified car made affordable really does have merit, and there is no positive reason for it to be dismissed by association with some unpopular political group from the past who also happened to express that idea.

I am not obliged to avoid all reasons that might be less than "positive" (according to your assessment). Your characterization of the NAZI regime is that of being nothing more than an "unpopular political group from the past", and I think that says a lot about your mindset in downplaying one of the most morally and politically reprehensible regimes ever to appear in human history.

Your citation of "Godwin's law" illustrates your discomfort of any mention being made of the NAZI state and the historical facts I cited, entirely relevant to the idea of the "people's car". That is a form of denial, if not tacit approval reflected by your employing a pressure tactic that such things should not be mentioned (invoking “Godwin's law"). Mr. Godwin won’t stifle the mention of history, nor will you.

Denial is more than a river in Egypt...

[shovel]

Cool. Are you done yet?

[LeanBurn]

The (ahem) 'size' demographic of North America would point to at least half the population be able to move their feet enough to press the pedals and row the gears without having a heart attack. They would have to put down the cheese burgers and soda and not be continually stuffing their faces and talking on cell phones. For a lot of these 'biggest loser contestants' its all they can do to enter/exit the vehicle, let alone turn the steering wheel because their bodies are right up against it...with the seat back as far as it will go.

In accord with some of the other posts, with modern electronics possibly enabling AT as good or better mpgs than the stick, there is little incentive to be involved with the vehicle. Its a different world than 10 or 20 years ago with cars and their value system. The majority of them are simply using them as appliances now.

[Frank Lee]

I've seen articles that say young'uns as a group don't care about cars, while of course when I was younger my generation was pretty much car crazy. I believe it's true; I've got my classic parked in the driveway and I can see that many youngsters go by without even glancing at it whereas if it had been me going by back in the day I'd have stopped for 45 minutes to drool all over it, then make it part of my regular route so I could see it every day. Lots of rubbernecking at my car out on the road, but ONLY by males of a certain age; women couldn't care less but that could be because their heads are stuck to cell phones and they are lost in conversation.

[shovel]

Originally Posted by LeanBurn

The majority of them are simply using them as appliances now.

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

I've seen articles that say young'uns as a group don't care about cars, while of course when I was younger my generation was pretty much car crazy.

It seems that with the advent of keeping records (as in, we can all see a pretty clear picture of what trends people found important 50 or 100 years ago, less so 200 years ago, and much less so 4000 years ago) - that there is a cycle of popularity and attitude that changes continually - I agree it really appears that the people entering adulthood today in Western society are less inclined, as a whole, to have an emotional attachment with the idea of owning a car. Niches have a way of organizing and solidifying, for example there are people who refuse to acknowledge texting as a means of communication, there are people who will never give up IRC, there are people who love anachronistic dance or music or hair or fashion styles, enough to support a market for whatever floats their boat.

The part I find a bit discouraging is that while the personal car itself isn't likely to absolutely go away while I'm still breathing, the idea of repairing them does really feel like it's doing the same thing Radio Shack did after the 1980s with their discrete parts. The internet has made it easier to get what parts are left (I remember waiting more than 2 months for a mail-ordered gasket from England, pre-internet - now it's available next-day on Amazon) but it seems a lot of parts just don't exist anymore. Anyone with a Tempo (or anything else 'featuring' power attack seat belts for which no new replacement parts are available) probably knows why that's no fun.