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Old 08-28-2018, 11:49 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Also non plug in hybrid batteries are tiny.
When you hit them with 10 to 20 kwh charge or demand they wouldn't last a real long time.

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Old 08-29-2018, 01:33 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Many people are getting 30+ miles of EV range, which I expect you would being in FL. After the EV range is used up, it's still a 55 MPG car.

The Gen II and Gen III Prius use NiMh batteries, which probably don't hold up as well as Li-ion. Still, FL is tough on vehicles that don't have active thermal management. For this reason, the Leaf would be a poor choice for you. The Spark EV has active thermal management, but I don't think they sold those outside of CA, OR, and maybe WA.
I doubt about range here in FL. 3/4th of the year, we have to max out our AC, because any day the sun shines, you can roast pork in a car!
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Old 08-29-2018, 01:51 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
The Gen II and Gen III Prius use NiMh batteries, which probably don't hold up as well as Li-ion.
Generally, NiMH batteries will take more charge cycles than lithium ion batteries. The Prius batteries have proven to be very robust; the longest-lived I've read about is a Gen II taxi in Austria with more than 600,000 miles on its original battery.
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Old 08-29-2018, 08:01 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Specifically, NiMH batteries can have hundreds of thousands of charge-discharge subcycles in the 40% to 75% charge range.
It is the end of the range where the most damage occurs, as there are fewer gaps remaining for the free ions to move to so they have to move much further.

Therefore hybrids like the Prius and the second gen Insight try to keep the charge state within that range.
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Old 08-29-2018, 08:36 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Specifically, NiMH batteries can have hundreds of thousands of charge-discharge subcycles in the 40% to 75% charge range.
It is the end or the range that the most damage occurs, as there are fewer gaps remaining for the free ions to move to so they have to move much further.

Therefore hybrids like the Prius and the second gen Insight try to keep the charge state within that range.
That's only for li batteries. Cd and Ni batteries need to be fully depleted before recharging, or memory effect will take place.
Only Lithium batteries, or lithium combination, can not be fully depleted, to prevent dead cells.

In practice, any battery usually has no more than 500 charges cycles (usually less). Lithium for cars seems to be an exception to this, perhaps due to the advances in technology.

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Old 08-29-2018, 09:01 AM   #36 (permalink)
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NiCd batteries had memory effect. NiMH batteries as used in hybrids do not.
(that is to say, it depends on quality. Good 'low self discharge' NiMH cells have no memory effect at all.)

Some Lithium batteries only have 300 to 400 full cycles before their capacity drops below 70%, but LiFePO4 batteries are good for thousands of cycles, some nickel containing battery chemistries can get even further.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compar..._battery_types...

Almost all modern battery types can handle many thousands of cycles if those cycles avoid the edges of their range.
Obviously, the NiMH battery in my car (at over 130.000 km) has done many many thousands of subcycle charges and recharges, and still performs like new (actually, better than when I got it!)
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Old 08-29-2018, 03:30 PM   #37 (permalink)
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worst thing so far: grabby friction brakes

The friction brakes truly suck at very low speeds. They're extremely sensitive & grabby.

If you make a habit of driving smoothly ("Limo stop" anybody?), this car will frustrate you.

I noticed it trying out the gee-whiz parking assist features yesterday. Like many other new cars, this one will self-steer into a parallel or perpendicular (back-in) parking space. All you have to do is control the vehicle's creeping with the brake (sometimes accelerator).

I wonder if it's a brake-by-wire system. If so, Toyota seriously needs to fine-tune it.

===

I also tried the radar cruise control, which was fun. It will adjust speed based on the preceeding car, and brake to a complete stop if necessary. (It won't start up from a stop, though - it gives the driver a message to tap the cruise lever to resume.)

Also tried: the car's lane-keeping / lane departure warning system, which was not very impressive on the stretch of road I used. It responded too late and with the wrong amount of steering correction to stay in the lane (too much or too little). Made me look like a drunk driver.
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Old 08-29-2018, 04:15 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
The friction brakes truly suck at very low speeds. They're extremely sensitive & grabby.

If you make a habit of driving smoothly ("Limo stop" anybody?), this car will frustrate you.

I noticed it trying out the gee-whiz parking assist features yesterday. Like many other new cars, this one will self-steer into a parallel or perpendicular (back-in) parking space. All you have to do is control the vehicle's creeping with the brake (sometimes accelerator).

I wonder if it's a brake-by-wire system. If so, Toyota seriously needs to fine-tune it.

===

I also tried the radar cruise control, which was fun. It will adjust speed based on the preceeding car, and brake to a complete stop if necessary. (It won't start up from a stop, though - it gives the driver a message to tap the cruise lever to resume.)

Also tried: the car's lane-keeping / lane departure warning system, which was not very impressive on the stretch of road I used. It responded too late and with the wrong amount of steering correction to stay in the lane (too much or too little). Made me look like a drunk driver.
If I may suggest?
If the friction brakes are too grabby, I would recommend taking them out.
..

No, but for real,
Take them to a mechanic. If they are semi metallic brake pads, you can swap them out for organic ones. If possible, with a smaller footprint as the current ones.
Organic brake pads are cheaper, and known to have a low initial bite.
It takes pressing the pedal quite hard for them to stop a vehicle.

I think that the brakes are tuned for when there is no regenerative braking available.
So while you can lower the performance under normal conditions this way, if you at one point in time, need strong braking, the organic ones by themselves (without regenerative braking) might not do for you!

Toyota probably wants to keep themselves safe, by rather offering overperforming brakes, than to get sued for using sub standard brakes when the regenerative braking fails.
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Old 08-29-2018, 04:23 PM   #39 (permalink)
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The Gen II and III Prii all suffered this rough transition as far as I know, and it seems that carried over to the gen IV.

Blending in friction brakes with regen is difficult. In my Prius, the car transitions from regen to friction at 7 MPH. What I actually think is happening is there is mostly regen happening, with a slight amount of friction taking place. At 7 MPH, the regen cuts out entirely, and the rate of deceleration drops since only friction remains. It requires pushing the brake pedal harder to maintain the same rate of deceleration, which is a little disconcerting if you're approaching a vehicle ahead.

Normal friction brakes are very linear. A given pedal pressure will result in a given rate of deceleration. Not so in the Prius.
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Old 08-29-2018, 04:45 PM   #40 (permalink)
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The Gen 2 Insight also has this rough transition. It is self learning, but it amounts to too grabby one time, too loose another.
All in all it is not that bad, I never had any passengers commenting about it.

I want a full EV though.

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