The "I'm not a hybrid" hybrid idea

[AmpEater]

[QUOTE=MetroMPG;123666]Goodness! That means when my alternator is disconnected (running at 12v) my engine is making minus 100 horsepower!!

I'm confused....you're running at 4.5v?

[MetroMPG]

WHoops! Not intentionally. NO, that was just me mis-reading your post. I thought I read "every .1v drop".

That leaves the Flea with ~25 hp @ 12v with a 10hp/1v drop from 14.5 v.

Which is of course, still not likely. The test vehicle related to that statement probably had a billion horsepower to start with.

[MetroMPG]

PS - sorry for the OT burst!

Originally Posted by chuckm

But here's where my cogitating went: What if I added a couple more batteries and used it to power a small motor mounted in the current location of the alternator? Could I disconnect the motor's drive pulley and use the motor to drive the accessories?

Okay, what's wrong with this idea? Surely I'm missing something.

Nope. It's do-able, if a bit complicated. Do it! Please start a build thread.

[AmpEater]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

WHoops! Not intentionally. NO, that was just me mis-reading your post. I thought I read "every .1v drop".

That leaves the Flea with ~25 hp @ 12v with a 10hp/1v drop from 14.5 v.

Which is of course, still not likely. The test vehicle related to that statement probably had a billion horsepower to start with.

OK, good point, that info is useless without the original power of that engine. Assuming it was 300hp originally that works out to 3.33% power loss per volt.

It is pretty common in the racing world to run a 16v battery without an alt. Under the same sag as a normal battery that works out to ~14.66v, perfect. In that situation horsepower is all that matters, so clearly that extra voltage makes a difference.

[NiHaoMike]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

Goodness! That means when my alternator is disconnected (running at 12v) my engine is making minus 100 horsepower!!

---

Here's one reason I would go with a hybrid type "boost pack" vs. an alternator delete (and I have a fair amount of experience running without an alternator).

In a word, "range anxiety". (Thank you GM)

Yes, you could always hook up your alternator again if you realize you're not going to make it to your destination before the 12v juice runs out.

HOWEVER, if you ever partially deplete your battery and then turn the alternator back on, you will take a massive fuel economy hit with the alternator running at high field current straining valiantly to bring the battery back up to ~14 volts again. Ask me how I know this.

Depending on how badly you misjudged your "range", your fuel economy could even be worse than if you'd just left the alternator connected from the beginning.

I dream of a lightweight, intelligent, portable lithium ion "boost pack" system that retains the ~14v level in the starting battery while the alternator is disconnected:

• the boost pack chemistry is better suited to deep discharges than lead acid (lower battery cost/cycle if done right)
• it has the advantage of being lighter than auxiliary lead acid batteries
• it's portable - could use it to power other 12v stuff sometimes
• it's portable - bring it inside to recharge instead of running a cord to your car, if not using PV solar panels on the car to recharge
• if/when you run out of range, you simply turn on the alternator to re-supply power; no massive "recharge" MPG hit since your battery was kept up by the boost pack

Just thinking out loud.

What about design the battery so it can also be used in a hybrid bicycle? If the bicycle is then put on a stand, it should be possible to generate about 100-300Wh of free electricity every day. (And during the winter, even more savings by not having to run the heater as much!)
And in the car, design it to use regenerative braking. More free (recovered) energy.

[Frank Lee]

If I'm going to pedal my arse off, it's gonna be where the pedals are moving me down the road without all those conversion inefficiencies.

[NiHaoMike]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

If I'm going to pedal my arse off, it's gonna be where the pedals are moving me down the road without all those conversion inefficiencies.

I'm thinking more of a portable regenerative gym on a bike to use when the weather is too bad for cycling. A HSD bike will get you that with just a stand to hold it stable (or just a software setting for a "tadpole" trike) and an IMA bike will get you that with a stand that raises the rear wheel so it can move with the bike stationary. (Note that a bike stand ("trainer") that raises the rear wheel is expensive - $80 is the cheapest one I've seen so far. That's a good reason to go with HSD!)

[evolutionmovement]

Lotus is working on an add-on hybrid system that replaces the alternator with a starter/motor/alternator combo to add the stop/start feature to non hybrid cars.

Lights won't only put out less light at lower voltage, but will not last as long. I also wouldn't recommend it for some cars with already undersized wires for their lighting.

There is a Lithium-iron phosphate car battery made by Voltphreaks that weighs about 4 lbs. Also costs a grand or more. Odyssey also makes batteries in the 16-26lbs. range for a reasonable price.

Got my Cycle Ops bike trainer stand for under $50 on ebay.

[dcb]

Originally Posted by evolutionmovement

Lights won't only put out less light at lower voltage, but will not last as long.

That doesn't add up. Electricians have been using 130volt bulbs in hard to reach places for years precisely because they are underrated at 110 volts and last much longer.

[NiHaoMike]

Originally Posted by dcb

That doesn't add up. Electricians have been using 130volt bulbs in hard to reach places for years precisely because they are underrated at 110 volts and last much longer.

Some gas discharge bulbs (including fluorescent and HID) will fail early if dimmed below specifications due to uneven cathode wear. Halogens also wear out early due to halogen corrosion.

But normal incandescent, LED, and most cold cathode bulbs will last longer at low powers.

Got my Cycle Ops bike trainer stand for under $50 on ebay.

Still expensive for what it does. Considering that 3 ton jackstands are available new for as little as $20, the bike stand should cost more like $10-$15.