The "I'm not a hybrid" hybrid idea

[Christ]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Maybe your car doesn't, but all of mine (excluding the Insight, of course) have run just fine on 12V, as for instance engine-off coasting, or when an alternator goes out.

SO you don't think that voltage sag occurs then? 'Cuz I hate to break it to you, but almost as soon you start running off your battery alone, you're not running on 12V anymore.

By the way - your 12V battery, when fully charged, contains something closer to 13V. It's 12V *nominal*. Test it some time.


Darin -

The conversion factor for your car's lost HP will be quite different, obviously, because the vehicle in question was probably running very high-tension ignition system, high power fuel systems, and making something close to 1000+ HP. At that point, you could imagine that for each 1VDC from 14.5VDC, they'd lose 10HP or so... for a 1% efficiency loss.

Applying that to your car, assuming you have the same draw as that engine has - You'd only be losing 2.5% of available HP, in your case, a figure not even noticeable by multi-dyno testing. Of course, the calculation for HP loss will not be linear, either.

[cfg83]

Frank -

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Electrocharger?

Oh, you mean this :

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...rger-1729.html

CarloSW2

[evolutionmovement]

Under voltage=lower bulb life and less light. I used to work for OSRAM Sylvania, but since I know you won't listen to me, here's the first link I found: The Truth About Daytime Running Lights | The Truth About Cars

I don't see how the cost, weight, and loss of storage of extra batteries or the possible reliability issues/extra vigilance necessary to eliminate the alternator is worth it. To each their own, but it seems like spending a dollar to save a dime to me.

[NiHaoMike]

Originally Posted by evolutionmovement

I don't see how the cost, weight, and loss of storage of extra batteries or the possible reliability issues/extra vigilance necessary to eliminate the alternator is worth it. To each their own, but it seems like spending a dollar to save a dime to me.

What if the extra battery is easily removable and usable for other purposes? Like a hybrid bike, for example, or a portable power supply for electronics and power tools.

[AmpEater]

Originally Posted by evolutionmovement

Under voltage=lower bulb life and less light. I used to work for OSRAM Sylvania, but since I know you won't listen to me, here's the first link I found: The Truth About Daytime Running Lights | The Truth About Cars

I don't see how the cost, weight, and loss of storage of extra batteries or the possible reliability issues/extra vigilance necessary to eliminate the alternator is worth it. To each their own, but it seems like spending a dollar to save a dime to me.

With a very aerodynamic car I've seen 20% improvement in steady highway cruising with an alt delete. The total system weight need only be 20lbs with lifepo4, 50-60lbs with PbA. I dropped 35lbs by swapping out my starting battery for a tiny AGM.

I spend about $3000/year for fuel. If I save 20% of that, that is $600. I could build a lifepo4 delete for less than that.

All solid state, no moving parts. No belts to break, bearings to go, and no need to deal with the high temperatures under the hood. I could see a reliability increase.....

PS - I believe you that the bulbs wouldn't last as long. This is not the first time I've heard this - low voltages due to corrosion build up are blamed for bulb failure in classic cars.

[chuckm]

Under voltage=lower bulb life and less light.

I can believe that without any problem. My church had an oddball light fixture in our sign which was set for 90V (if I'm remembering correctly). Put a 110 bulb in it and it wouldn't last a week. We finally swapped out the guts to use a 110 bulb.

I don't see how the cost, weight, and loss of storage of extra batteries or the possible reliability issues/extra vigilance necessary to eliminate the alternator is worth it. To each their own, but it seems like spending a dollar to save a dime to me.

Yeah... I've started running the numbers. I'm estimating I'll spend about $1300-1500 per year on gas. I'm figuring I'd have to spend a minimum of $750 to get a system in place. I'm estimating a three year payback... ouch!

[AmpEater]

Originally Posted by chuckm

Yeah... I've started running the numbers. I'm estimating I'll spend about $1300-1500 per year on gas. I'm figuring I'd have to spend a minimum of $750 to get a system in place. I'm estimating a three year payback... ouch!

You could build a system out of 4x 36v dewalt batteries ($400) + a 36v 100a motor controller for a scooter ($100) that has ~330watt-hours of juice. Enough for ~23 Amps at 14v for one hour. More than an hour in the car and you can switch the alt coil back on without any further MPG hit because your battery is still charged as normal. The system would only weigh a little over 10 lbs and could easily be used elsewhere for drills, e-bike, scooter, etc

I'd go for a little more power, personally, but if you're worried about payback time then you want to choose a pack size that will be depleted in a normal commute and no more. That would net the maximum return for the least initial expenditure. That 80% extra for 2x the range doesn't make sense if you'd only use it 5% of the time. Numbers are fun

[dcb]

LOL, I hate it when I'm wrong, <quietly slinks away>

I Wasn't making up the 130 volt stuff, and many headlights are halogen, which niahomike indicates is reduced life with under voltage too. So for improved life, corner lights like lowered voltage, LEDs like it, halogen headlights, not so much.

[AmpEater]

Back to the original post...

Originally Posted by chuckm

But here's where my cogitating went: What if I added a couple more batteries and used it to power a small motor mounted in the current location of the alternator? Could I disconnect the motor's drive pulley and use the motor to drive the accessories?

Okay, what's wrong with this idea? Surely I'm missing something.

Even better - run the alternator as a brushless motor. This requires no modification to the car. You can get PMA generators on ebay, generally for windmills and such, that are nothing more than car alternators which have had the wound stator replaced with high-power magnets. I saw a thread on Rcgroups.com about doing exactly this, using an alternator made PMA as a high-power brushless motor with an off-the-shelf castle creations HV 110 ESC. How to Convert an Alternator to A Motor - Page 11 - RC Groups

That ESC costs $180 and can handle 50 volts and 110 amps. There is even a 140 amp version. That would be 7000 watts, or around 9 hp. It is sensorless, so you don't even need to add anything to the PMA.

I don't know to what extent it makes sense to supplement the engine with batteries though. At some point you're better off building an EV. I don't know where the line lies

[Christ]

I've been looking at alternator conversions... I have several old "blown" alternators laying around... they need voltage regulators and such, but anymore, it's cheaper to just get a lifetime one, and be done with it.