Influencing Busy Four-Lane Highway/Freeway Speeds to Increase FE

[NiHaoMike]

If there's a group of hypermilers, how about have at least one in each lane driving at the limit such that it is impossible to pass? I remember reading about a group actually doing that and video recording the results.

[newhavenpatriot]

Originally Posted by NiHaoMike

If there's a group of hypermilers, how about have at least one in each lane driving at the limit such that it is impossible to pass? I remember reading about a group actually doing that and video recording the results.

I remember reading an article and seeing a video about that being done in some city... three people drove their cars at exactly 55 mph and it actually caused a gigantic gathering of 55 mph-driving cars behind them. The cops actually pulled them over and tried to say they were disrupting the normal flow of traffic, and I don't know what happened in the end. My guess is, depending on the state, they might have been cited for not passing when in the left (passing) lane.

[darcane]

Originally Posted by hamsterpower

good theory but....

This only works when the "Others" smoothly merge around us. In my experience most drivers race up to my bumper, get mad, make an obscene gesture, pass wildly while making more gestures and cursing, and ultimately burning far more gas than I'm saving. This happens even when there are no cars in the passing lane to keep my gesturing friend from passing smoothly. Go figure?

Most?

When I slow down and treat the speed limit as an upper limit I am constantly passed by people driving faster and they all smoothly flow around me. I have not had a single person make gestures and curse, and only a tiny handful stomp on the gas and "pass wildly".

Really, the only times I can remember people getting pissed off and honking, swearing, etc is when someone drives real slow in the left lane rather than the right. And somewhat rightly so; it's not your job to police other people's speed. Driving slow in the left lane is just as unlawful as speeding is.

[jkp1187]

Originally Posted by darcane

Most?

When I slow down and treat the speed limit as an upper limit I am constantly passed by people driving faster and they all smoothly flow around me. I have not had a single person make gestures and curse, and only a tiny handful stomp on the gas and "pass wildly".

Really, the only times I can remember people getting pissed off and honking, swearing, etc is when someone drives real slow in the left lane rather than the right. And somewhat rightly so; it's not your job to police other people's speed. Driving slow in the left lane is just as unlawful as speeding is.

I agree with that - drive on the right, pass in the left.

That said, I have had people get upset with me for going the speed limit on a two-lane road with a no-passing zone. And I have been tailgated going the speed limit in the right lane on a four-lane highway (where I could have easily been passed.)

[Frank Lee]

I made a thread once upon a time re: hypermiling wastes gas?!? Because if you look at the macro of the thing, one hypermiler can "cause" hundreds of lead-footed SUV-drivin' eh holes to slam on the brakes then goose it getting around you. Of course the gas consumed is much greater than if they wouldn't have done that i.e. if the hypermiler would have been going with the flow too.

Not saying don't hypermile, not at all. Just sayin', that's what I think the macro view of this thing is.

[jkp1187]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

I made a thread once upon a time re: hypermiling wastes gas?!? Because if you look at the macro of the thing, one hypermiler can "cause" hundreds of lead-footed SUV-drivin' eh holes to slam on the brakes then goose it getting around you. Of course the gas consumed is much greater than if they wouldn't have done that i.e. if the hypermiler would have been going with the flow too.

Not saying don't hypermile, not at all. Just sayin', that's what I think the macro view of this thing is.

That is a very fair point. I don't think that scenario holds all of the time, or even necessarily the majority of times, but it is still a possibility to be considered if your goal is to reduce fuel consumption generally (instead of just your particular use of it.)

Can't save everything, I suppose, but still it's one reason why it's a particular pet peeve of mine to see people get self-righteous about their preferred method of driving (regardless of whether they have a lead foot or if they hypermile.) Driving and traffic are such complex things, there's always some new factor to be considered, something new to be learned. There are often unintended consequences to consider.

As an aside, has anyone read Tom Vanderbilt's book, Traffic: Why We Drive the Way We Do? It's a pretty good read on the subject - just came out in paperback recently.

[newhavenpatriot]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

I made a thread once upon a time re: hypermiling wastes gas?!? Because if you look at the macro of the thing, one hypermiler can "cause" hundreds of lead-footed SUV-drivin' eh holes to slam on the brakes then goose it getting around you. Of course the gas consumed is much greater than if they wouldn't have done that i.e. if the hypermiler would have been going with the flow too.

Not saying don't hypermile, not at all. Just sayin', that's what I think the macro view of this thing is.

I have to disagree if we're talking about a four-lane highway. Driving the speed limit reduces the average speed of all the traffic around you. How? Well, I'm glad you asked. A driver merging into the passing lane to get around you causes everyone else in the passing lane to slow down, since there's no third lane, and eventually this brings it down to a safer, less frenetic pace. Sure, they can just accelerate once they get past your car, but if you're driving the speed limit of 55, the people behind you and to the left aren't going 70 anymore, maybe they're only going 60-65 now. And the people behind you are going 55 and then changing lanes. If you continue to "go with the flow" and drive 70, everyone in both lanes will go that speed or higher for that same distance. Does that make sense at all? I can see how your thinking holds true on roads with two passing lanes, but with only one, I don't see how tons of people going 70 vs. 55, 60, or 65 can generate a net savings of fuel.

[hamsterpower]

Originally Posted by darcane

Most?
.

I'm sorry. That was an exaggeration. It is a lot though.

And of course I drive slow only in the right lane, I have no interest in policing others.
I'll tell you this, where I drive, residents are known as "Mass-holes" for a reason.

My point was, if my goal is to reduce total fuel burned as opposed to fuel *I* burn. I failed if others are accelerating rapidly to get back up to speed past me. (like too many do here)

I have learned that if I'm at less than 15 over the posted limit, I have to watch the mirrors NEARLY as much as my front view. (not exaggerating) even if it is only for that 1 in 100 driver.

[Frank Lee]

Newhaven: if passers executed their maneuvers smoothly it wouldn't be so bad. Many don't. As noted, even on a 4-lane people will come barrelling up behind you and at the last second either slam on the brakes or swerve around, even if the left lane is clear. Why? I think cell phones have a lot to do with it.

Even, as you describe, if on a 4-lane people "slow", they only do it next to and behind you; then they accel back up to where they were.

[newhavenpatriot]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Newhaven: if passers executed their maneuvers smoothly it wouldn't be so bad. Many don't. As noted, even on a 4-lane people will come barrelling up behind you and at the last second either slam on the brakes or swerve around, even if the left lane is clear. Why? I think cell phones have a lot to do with it.

Even, as you describe, if on a 4-lane people "slow", they only do it next to and behind you; then they accel back up to where they were.

You're spot-on re: cell phones. I don't know how all those people talk on the phone without crashing. I get so annoyed when I see someone tailgating me and yakking away, because they're putting my safety on the line.

I suppose the question becomes this: If you can get most people to slow down around you, and only some of them fly wildly around you, then does hypermiling save gas in a macro sense? I'm not sure there's a way to weigh one vs. the other, because it has so many variables. You have to take into account whether drivers brake hard behind you and accelerate hard to get around or whether they just merge left and go around a bit faster, how many people are on the road, whether they drive faster once they get ahead because they feel they "lost time" by driving slower, how many lanes there are, etc.

Sometimes people just sit behind me and match my speed, which I think is wicked cool, because then no one can rear-end me if they're distracted with their cell phone, and it just makes me feel less nervous than people speeding right up to my back bumper and then moving.