An interesting idea for energy storage.

[RustyLugNut]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

The bird burning issue will decrease as the number of birds in the area are reduced...

It seems more economical to build out a power distribution system that allows over-generation to be utilized in other regions rather than build enormous battery systems, or at least to reduce the amount of needed storage.

As it stands, the Ivanpah Heliostat farm is along the transmission link that ties the Hydro power of the Boulder Dam and several other power sources to the Southern California Region. But this generated power doesn't necessarily flow the 300+ miles to the downtown Los Angeles Basin. A cascade of power plants along the route add to the flow. I am just east of a new multi turbine natural gas electrical generation station and our area is fed by only a fraction of the plant's total output. The majority gets sent to counties west of us and we benefit from power flowing from the desert solar stations, wind farms and geothermal plants as well as a few old coal plants. The power generated west of us keeps flowing west into the energy sinkhole that is Los Angeles. We have discussed transmission line losses in various threads and at some point local generation becomes more economical. Oil Pan 4's outline of a grid tied Photo-voltaic array, along with conservation efforts will not be as effective in high density urban areas, but with sufficient storage along the power transmission corridor renewable energy sources can support a large metropolis with only a small need from standby traditional power generation. Power storage, whether diffused through out a region, or in large concentrated nodes will be needed.

[redpoint5]

It would be brilliant to decentralize storage via EV batteries. Give monetary incentives to consumers to participate in smart appliances and car charging schemes which allow certain appliances to be throttled during times of power shortfalls, and allow idle vehicles attached to the grid to act as power sources. Charge the vehicles during periods of excess generation.

Decentralizing the storage would cut down on transmission losses, increase reliability, decrease vulnerability, and utilize a resource which will likely be commonplace in 10 years time.

[redneck]

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Another interesting energy storage idea.



https://www.wired.com/2016/05/forget...ed-train-hill/

https://vimeo.com/39364772

https://vimeo.com/75895781?from=outro-embed

https://vimeo.com/48546631?from=outro-embed


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More info here.

Electricity and Power Storage - Ares North America




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[RustyLugNut]

The costs seem excessive for what it is but that could just be due to the newness of the application and the over scrutiny required.

It would allow areas with considerable renewable solar, wind or other renewables much needed "smoothing" capabilities.

Mechanical and hydraulic systems have very high returns on storage and return of energy.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by RustyLugNut

The costs seem excessive for what it is but that could just be due to the newness of the application and the over scrutiny required.

The high relative cost is due to the small relative scale. Hauling a few boxcars of rocks up 2,000 feet doesn't provide much electrical buffering compared to the price to build and operate the infrastructure.

I wonder how efficient it is at returning the energy it consumes? How does this compare to hydro storage and other buffering strategies?

Things like rails, wheels and bearings are wear items and would need periodic replacement. I would think maintenance on a hydro system could be lower, but I don't know what the frictional losses are.

[freebeard]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rack_railway

redneck covered what I was going to point to. But I thought the long grade was excessive. Return On Investment might be greater anywhere there are mountains available.