Interesting info from Lutz

[whitevette]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

... or what REAL sports cars like the '50s & '60s Austin-Healeys, MGs, and their like did with a hundred or so.

Those "real" sports cars were an abomination insofar as quality, safety, and emissions were concerned. Altho' emissions may be an invalid point ( times change ) BMC built tractor engines...and put them in the most awkward body envelopes (wasn't it fun to sit on the floor?). The doors didn't fit, the tops weren't weather-proof...but the rattles were free. Who liked Lucas electrics?
Clive Tricky loved Minis... but I pleaded with mine to stay together.

[jamesqf]

They were no worse in quality, safety, or emissions than the other cars of their day. Indeed, they were probably better, especially as regards emissions. They may not have been any better measured in parts-per-million, but the smaller bodies and engines meant they put out a lot fewer parts per mile.

The doors didn't fit all that well on the Chevys of that era, either. American electrics weren't that great - though of course not to Lucas (All hail, Lord of Darkness!) standards, and I could tell you stories about GM transmissions, and people who heard some banging and looked in the rear view mirror to see major driveline parts.

By "sit on the floor", I suppose you mean a proper, comfortable reclined seating posture, instead of the uncomfortable bolt-upright on an overstuffed sofa SUV-type seating. And you're darned right, that's what I want in a car. (My biggest complaint about the Insight is that it's too tall, and the seats don't recline enough.)

[dremd]

I'd be for it if! Auto manufactures were required to have a common bumper height. AKA don't design SUV's to ride up over compacts. It would be simple, just build crash worth air dams. I'd even be for front only as a compromise.

[Formula413]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

By "sit on the floor", I suppose you mean a proper, comfortable reclined seating posture, instead of the uncomfortable bolt-upright on an overstuffed sofa SUV-type seating. And you're darned right, that's what I want in a car. (My biggest complaint about the Insight is that it's too tall, and the seats don't recline enough.)

Just to highjack a bit on this point, I rode in a Vibe-trix recently and was put off by the very upright, van like seating position. Of course, I drive an Escort (low) and a Firebird (lower).

[roflwaffle]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

I read- I believe consumer reports?- that the Escort could take a 5 mph hit and incur $0 damage, whereas much of the new stuff sustains hundreds (thousands?) of dollars of damage from the same hit. Thank fancy lighting and integrated bumpers. Basically, low-level impact resistance is not now a priority in design criteria.

I think it's that ped/occupant safety is a greater concern than vehicle repairability. Having a vehicle that deforms properly and absorbs more energy than something stiff will be harder to repair if possible at all, but replacing a car is cheaper than replacing a person.

[Frank Lee]

I don't know how the Escort fares vs peds. IMHO they have a "benign" front end shape (totally unlike the front of my '59 Bel Air- OUCH! And totally unlike the PUs and SUVs that populate our roads) and I doubt that they are all that "hard", so they probably aren't too bad, for peds and for crush zone performance. I like how they can shrug off a minor hit w/o or with minimal damage and it is all due to the design. That design philosophy is not available to us today.

P.S. Basically I don't think robustness towards minor collision damage and "friendliness" towards ped and occupant collisions are mutually exclusive.

[cfg83]

Formula413 -

Originally Posted by Formula413

Just to highjack a bit on this point, I rode in a Vibe-trix recently and was put off by the very upright, van like seating position. Of course, I drive an Escort (low) and a Firebird (lower).

When I was looking at the Vibetrix, I also read that the driving position was uncomfortable to some. My neighbor traded her yellow Matrix in because of this, before I got a chance to test it out, .

Whenever I've driven a Van, I have felt the higher center of gravity, and that made me uncomfortable.

CarloSW2

[RH77]

It sits pretty high. The seat is essentially from the Corolla if that helps, but raised higher for that "tall car" feeling.

RH77

[dremd]

Yes; the Vibe works hard to make you think it 's a larger car than it is; best way to do that; make you sit high up. I just look at it as marketing.