Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > General Efficiency Discussion
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-19-2012, 12:55 PM   #11 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 5,209
Thanks: 225
Thanked 811 Times in 594 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeanBurn View Post
So if I understand this correctly, I should ditch my fully paid for (as of 8 years ago cost $15k) 4x4 1997 suburban that hauls a family of 6 around weekly, tows my 5000lbs and 3500lbs trailers around in the summer...
Nope, not if you're ONLY using the Suburban to haul people or tow stuff (though you might want to think about your towing needs). The problem is when you are using that vehicle as your daily driver.

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 10-19-2012, 01:18 PM   #12 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
RobertISaar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: camden, MI
Posts: 324

MC SBX - '95 Chevrolet Monte Carlo LS
Last 3: 29.75 mpg (US)
Thanks: 7
Thanked 55 Times in 46 Posts
simple math to figure out if you should acquire/trade a vehicle:

how much is the current vehicle worth?
what kind of fuel economy does it achieve with the route you drive?
what does the fuel cost?

the last two basically establish a "cost of ownership". for simplicity, it would be easy to measure how much it costs in a year to own/operate.

then compare it to:

what will the new vehicle cost?
what kind of fuel economy does it achieve with the route you drive?
what does the fuel cost?
will it perform the tasks you require?

now the top 3 are factored in for "cost of ownership". the center two are still easily calculated in yearly costs as well.



long story short, unless you're driving a 10MPG truck 10,000 miles a year and don't need more than the capacilities of a honda CRX, you're probably not going to make that money back soon, if at all. but everyone's situaton will be different. those who drive less will have a much harder time justifying it than those who put significant milage(and therefore, fuel) on their vehicles.

example for me:

95 monte carlo, averaging 29.5MPG. i drive MAYBE 8000 miles a year. car is paid off. fuel currently at ~3.70/gallon. 8000/29.5 = 271.2 gallons used in a year. 271.2 X 3.70 = $1003.44 spent yearly to drive the car.

let's say i wanted to step up to a ~2013 Cruze Eco, since i'm fond of them and it will do what i need it to. and that i achieve it's highway fuel economy rating with my route/habits(42 with the manual, BTW). runs on regular grade gas, just like the monte. assuming i drive the same 8000 miles, that's 190.5 gallons of gas, so $704.85 yearly fuel cost....

so i save 298.59 a year in fuel costs..... but the MSRP of the Cruze Eco w/manual is 20,475 according to the chevrolet website... i would have to own/operate the cruze for 68.57 years to make back the price in buying the car.

assuming i were driving a 20MPG car, it's 26.4 years.

a 10MPG car(woof), 9.08 years.



so........ good luck justifying a new car based on fuel savings alone.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2012, 01:31 PM   #13 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
euromodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Belgium
Posts: 4,683

The SCUD - '15 Fiat Scudo L2
Thanks: 178
Thanked 652 Times in 516 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
I can get a nice steak dinner for $9 in Enid OK, or 1 Stella Artois (because they don't have craft) beer in Miami FL
You could move here and enjoy $9 gas and $3 drafted Stella's

The Inbevs of the world are complaining that draft beer is way too cheap here in Belgium, they'd rather like to sell it at tourist-trap prices.
__________________
Strayed to the Dark Diesel Side

  Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2012, 01:39 PM   #14 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Daox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 11,203

CM400E - '81 Honda CM400E
90 day: 51.49 mpg (US)

Daox's Grey Prius - '04 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 49.53 mpg (US)

Daox's Insight - '00 Honda Insight
90 day: 64.33 mpg (US)

Swarthy - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage DE
Mitsubishi
90 day: 56.69 mpg (US)

Daox's Volt - '13 Chevrolet Volt
Thanks: 2,501
Thanked 2,585 Times in 1,553 Posts
Some of you are just being rediculous.

Obviously, there are monetary problems from going to a less efficient vehicle to a brand new vehicle. Buying a brand new vehicle is always the worst choice if you're looking to save money, everybody knows that (at least they should). However, there is absolutely nothing stopping anyone from buying a car of equal value that gets better mileage, and then selling their less fuel efficient vehicle. Sadly, it seems to be extremely rare that people actually do this.
__________________
Current project: A better alternator delete
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Daox For This Useful Post:
GRU (10-19-2012)
Old 10-19-2012, 01:54 PM   #15 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
RobertISaar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: camden, MI
Posts: 324

MC SBX - '95 Chevrolet Monte Carlo LS
Last 3: 29.75 mpg (US)
Thanks: 7
Thanked 55 Times in 46 Posts
my cars aren't worth a damn, so that path is pretty much non-existant.

using the insight example from the article:

$5000
EPA rating of 59 highway(using newer MPG ratings)

i MIGHT be able to sell the MC for $1000.

so $4000.

8000 miles/year at 59MPG = 135.6 gallons X 3.70/gallon = $501.72 gas/year.

7.97 years to make up the difference.... still not the "Switching from an SUV to a car, will save you enough to buy a new luxury car every ten years, or an excellent used car every four years." but i'm also not doing SUV economy....

18MPG with a SUV seems reasonable, it's actually slightly less than what my dad achieves with his 99 yukon.

18MPG/8000 miles = 444.44 gallons X 3.70 = $1,644.44 a year.

the SUV will almost certainly be worth more than the $1000 my car is(for reasons i don't quite understand), but let's say $3000. so there is a $2000 gap to make up. takes 1.2 years to recoup the cost and make money off of this, assuming your tasks don't require anything more than an insight.

after 10 years, you'll have saved $11,427.20, which while it is an impressive amount, it is NOT a new luxury car every 10 years. and if you're buying lux cars, how many of them get anywhere near the fuel economy you would have to achieve to make this up?





long story short: unless you bought a wildly inappropriate vehicle for your workload, you're not going to miraculously start saving money.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2012, 02:07 PM   #16 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Daox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 11,203

CM400E - '81 Honda CM400E
90 day: 51.49 mpg (US)

Daox's Grey Prius - '04 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 49.53 mpg (US)

Daox's Insight - '00 Honda Insight
90 day: 64.33 mpg (US)

Swarthy - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage DE
Mitsubishi
90 day: 56.69 mpg (US)

Daox's Volt - '13 Chevrolet Volt
Thanks: 2,501
Thanked 2,585 Times in 1,553 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertISaar View Post
long story short: unless you bought a wildly inappropriate vehicle for your workload, you're not going to miraculously start saving money.
Exactly, and that is also exactly what a TON of people do every day.
__________________
Current project: A better alternator delete
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2012, 02:11 PM   #17 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
RobertISaar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: camden, MI
Posts: 324

MC SBX - '95 Chevrolet Monte Carlo LS
Last 3: 29.75 mpg (US)
Thanks: 7
Thanked 55 Times in 46 Posts
i'll paraphrase George Carlin here:

people are stupid.

think of how stupid the average person you meet is. now realize that half are worse than that.





it's sad that simple math like this seemingly can't be taught to a majority of people.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2012, 03:07 PM   #18 (permalink)
The PRC.
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Elsewhere.
Posts: 5,304
Thanks: 285
Thanked 536 Times in 384 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesqf View Post
Nope, not if you're ONLY using the Suburban to haul people or tow stuff (though you might want to think about your towing needs). The problem is when you are using that vehicle as your daily driver.
Hammer hits nail.
__________________
[I]So long and thanks for all the fish.[/I]
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2012, 03:50 PM   #19 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 5,209
Thanks: 225
Thanked 811 Times in 594 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertISaar View Post
7.97 years to make up the difference.... still not the "Switching from an SUV to a car, will save you enough to buy a new luxury car every ten years, or an excellent used car every four years." but i'm also not doing SUV economy....
But you're using a very contrived, out on the end of the scale example. Most of the people that post is addressed to are probably driving much newer vehicles.

Say instead that your current vehicle (which you use mainly for commuting, alone) is this 2007 Yukon: 2007 GMC Yukon XL on which you just paid off the 5 year auto loan. Let's even say that the buyer talks you down to $20K. So you buy the $5K Insight to commute in, leaving $15K in your pocket, and everything you save on gas, registration, insurance, etc is gravy.

Even if you then spend $5K of that $15K on an older pickup or SUV for the occasional hauling jobs, you're still $10K to the good, plus the ongoing gas savings.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2012, 04:01 PM   #20 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
RobertISaar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: camden, MI
Posts: 324

MC SBX - '95 Chevrolet Monte Carlo LS
Last 3: 29.75 mpg (US)
Thanks: 7
Thanked 55 Times in 46 Posts
that's just more proof that people are stupid then. buy a SUV that costs between 35 and 50 thousand(source), gets either 14/19(5.3) or 13/17(6.0), they take a gigantic hit on resale value, then sell it immediately after they pay it off?

it's like they hate money.

__________________
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to RobertISaar For This Useful Post:
WesternStarSCR (11-02-2012)
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com