Lighter pickups coming soon- but geez have they gotten fat!

[Clev]

Originally Posted by autoteach

The one limiting factor was power, coming in at just over 100hp in the late 1980's. The hp was fine for around town, great for heavy off hwy work in tight quarters, but really didnt allow the truck to reach its full potential, IMO. I can imagine if it had 150-175hp 4 cylinder, it would have been incredibly more popular than what it was.

How about an ecoboost-type small turbo and/or a six-speed manual?

Originally Posted by sid

As someone who bought a new Ranger in 1999 (3L 6 cylinder) and another new 2010 Ranger (2.3L 4 cylinder) last year, plus from talking with friends who used to own Rangers but who got F-150s the last time they bought new vehicles, it is extremely obvious that Ford puts a lot of pressure on potential Ranger buyers to switch to F-150s.

And the pricing (see above). Ford prices the Ranger so that if you need it to actually do any hauling, you have to option it to within $500 of an F-150, AND it gets worse mileage.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by The Rooster

You just said the Tacoma was a mid size truck, but used it in your argument that because the Tacoma sells more than the Tundra that people want small trucks, even though neither of them are small. Using your own logic, the Tacoma cant be considered small, so should be excluded from the already paltry small truck sales figures. So if you only count the ACTUAL small trucks...Colorado, Canyon, Frontier and Ranger...the numbers are pathetic.

I think you missed my point, which was that there are no small trucks being sold in the US these days. There are only mid-sized - the ones of similar size to the Tacoma, which you call small - large, and super-sized.

A small truck would be something in the size & weight range of the '70s Toyota SR5, which IIRC came in around 2500 lbs, compared to the 2010 Tacoma which is pushing 4000.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by The Rooster

Yep, 22R is a 2.4L. The 20R was the 2.2L. No sure why Toyota designated them like that.

The 22R is 2366 cc per the manual, so the difference between calling it a 2.3L or 2.4L is kinda splitting hairs.

The engine numbers are historic, upgrades of the basic R series engine design: Toyota R engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[TheEnemy]

I wouldn't count the newest model of Frontier a small truck, its almost as big as the 1970 F350 I once owned. When I was looking at replacing my 99 Frontier I realized that for the options I needed (4 door long bed) the V-6 was the only way to go, the 2.4l was no longer sufficient to pull that much weight around.

As its looking we decided to keep our 99 until it gets so worn out that we start hesitating to drive it on long trips.

My only complaints about the one we have now is the low gears aren't as low as I need, the class 2 hitch bumper hasn't held up, and I need one with a larger back seat.

[Clev]

Originally Posted by TheEnemy

I wouldn't count the newest model of Frontier a small truck, its almost as big as the 1970 F350 I once owned. When I was looking at replacing my 99 Frontier I realized that for the options I needed (4 door long bed) the V-6 was the only way to go, the 2.4l was no longer sufficient to pull that much weight around.

Unless it had a 6-speed manual, but oops, they only offer than with the V-6. How convenient.

My only complaints about the one we have now is the low gears aren't as low as I need, the class 2 hitch bumper hasn't held up, and I need one with a larger back seat.

As much as I hate to say it, the larger F-150 with the V-6 gets better mileage than the Frontier either with the 4 or 6. Guess that's what happens when they don't put any R&D dollars into their smaller engines.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by TheEnemy

...for the options I needed (4 door long bed)...

But you're up against purists like me, who think a 4 door truck is a contradiction in terms, or rather a sedan that's missing its trunk lid :-)

Anecdotal evidence: some friends of mine recently traded in their older (real) pickup for a new 4 door "truck", put a matching camper shell over the 5 foot long bed, and now ask me to stop & pick up a few bales of hay &c whenever I drive out to visit them.

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by autoteach

The one limiting factor was power, coming in at just over 100hp in the late 1980's. The hp was fine for around town, great for heavy off hwy work in tight quarters, but really didnt allow the truck to reach its full potential, IMO. I can imagine if it had 150-175hp 4 cylinder, it would have been incredibly more popular than what it was.

Horsepower isn't everything...

I've pulled 12000lbs behind a 120hp diesel suburban in my teens, 2 trailers a camping trailer and a concession trailer and the suburban was loaded to the ceiling. Besides being slow and having a 55mph top speed everything worked just fine, no overheating or any other issues.

You need the right gears to pull not necessarily HP. It is very unfortunately that everyone figures they need to drive an F1, even if it takes the house and bank to pay for the fuel.

[taco]

I got an 81 4wd pick up 22r 5'speed (4.88gears gears way to low) and a 09 4x4 tacoma v6 auto ex cab and the both get the same milage. But I tow the 81 with the 09 and wouldn't do it the other way around.
Weird thing I noticed the other day my 09 Tacoma has a higher payload than my dads 2010 f150 4x4 lariat crew. But my old 98 taco 4x4 reg cab payload was 500 lbs higher than both of them. And got better gas milage.

Dads get 16 mpg out of his 5.4 my sisters boyfriends fx4 4x4 get about 13. I blame lower gears.
I get ~ 20 out of my 4.0 and 2.4 carbed.

My 81 is a long bed and weighs 3100 lbs with a full tank of gas. But has to tow at least 6k.


I would Gladly buy. 4x4 that gets 30 mpg and can get out of it's way.

[TheEnemy]

Originally Posted by Clev

Unless it had a 6-speed manual, but oops, they only offer than with the V-6. How convenient.



As much as I hate to say it, the larger F-150 with the V-6 gets better mileage than the Frontier either with the 4 or 6. Guess that's what happens when they don't put any R&D dollars into their smaller engines.

To get the 4 door with 6.5' bed the ford is only available in a V8 automatic 13/19 mpg @ $31k

To get the 4 door Nissan with 6.5' bed V6, auto only mpg not listed, guessing 15/20 @ $27k

Base model V6 F150 vs Base model I4 Frontier get about the same mileage figures.

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by taco

I would Gladly buy. 4x4 that gets 30 mpg and can get out of it's way.

Lets face it, if you need a 4x4 you are never going to get extremely excellent FE, at least compared to a 2x4

And you also listed the main reason you can't buy a 30mpg full size truck, you want lots of HP, give up on one of the two and you will have your answer...

My suburban is going to be driving mostly highway with a full load in cab, I could care less how fast it goes up the hill as long as it goes up the hill. And if I get there on about the same amount of fuel as a Buick lesabre I won't be complaining any.