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Old 07-28-2012, 07:25 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Taking the multiple passengers assumption to an extreme you need more than 16 Passengers and a diesel, say 50 passengers and a bus. I understand the rationale, but I am transporting myself, on my schedule and only going where I want, when I ride my bike. In the car my wife and I ride and then we are getting almost the same mileage as my bike and me alone, but that is not really the issue.

The issue to me (and only me) is how much do I spend a month on fuel and how much does my family spend a month on fuel. I haven't financed a car or a house in almost two decades. I carry no long term debt, and I have long term debt obligations being paid to me, earning me income.

Getting out of the debt trap is what I call being a "farmer of net worth". It's not what you make, it's how much you grow your net worth on a time basis, like yearly. If you focus on increasing your net worth, and focus on elimination of debt obligations, you have gone a long way to true financial independence, as well as getting out of the "rat race" of trying to impress your neighbors, or for that matter impressing anyone with objects you are merely renting from another person or company.

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Old 07-28-2012, 07:29 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I generally ride alone. If any other rider tries to influence my riding style or coerce me into taking dangerous actions or additional risk, they can kiss my you know what. If they want to ride like idiots then they can die without me as a witness.

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Old 07-29-2012, 12:53 AM   #13 (permalink)
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We call it 'value management'. Each week for forty years I say to myself "I would like to own a motorcycle," and every week I say "What on earth for?" I need a vehicle I can use in the snow 5 months out of the year. Maybe a streamlined motorcyle with knobby tires might work. For the next five years I have to drive my twins around. But back to the main discussion.
Past Vetter Challenge winners have been single cylinder water cooled engines. Ducting at speed and at a stop means taking cool air from a high pressure area, moving it toward the cooling fins, and into a low pressure area without making sharp bends or cooking the rider.
There are trade offs in both the inline and V twin configuration. The inline engine has each cylinder receiving cool air but the width reduces the distance between the cylinder and the rider's legs available for duct work. With narrow ducting, a single 12 inch fan for the whole engine may not work. Consider a number of small fans, such those in a computer power supply, working in parallel. Some could be switched on or off depending on engine temperature and speed. Another possible cooling device is a water injection nozzle spraying mist onto the cooling fins. We often would cool an overheated car engine by pouring water over the outside of the radiator to avoid being scalded.
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Old 07-30-2012, 09:20 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Having streamlined an air cooled bike, I would agree that ducting and small fans work well. but for longer distances you will want an oil cooler, as the crankcase and oil also need to stay cool. some of the water cooled machines could probably benefit from an oil cooler also.
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:17 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I've had my Suzuki SACS oil/air cooled engine run very rough due to the heat in city traffic in 90F weather.
That was on a naked bike.

Enclosing the heat source is a recipe for distaster.
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Old 07-30-2012, 06:26 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
I've had my Suzuki SACS oil/air cooled engine run very rough due to the heat in city traffic in 90F weather.
in city traffic any engine would overheat without a cooling fan. even a liquid cooled one. liquid cooled engines rely heavily on fan assisted cooling, and it can work for air cooled engines as well.

also, rough running in very hot weather on carburetted machines can also be a mix issue, since they do not automatically adjust for changes in temp, elevation, humidity, etc...
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Old 07-30-2012, 11:10 PM   #17 (permalink)
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My XT-225 doesn't like the extremely high temperatures we've been experiencing. With temps in the 90-100 degree range after a few seconds of idling it will begin to run rough and die. I believe it's the gas in the float bowl being overheated and coming up into the intake tract. Runs fine in cooler temps, though. A reduction in the fuel level via a float adjustment might fix the problem--or the floats themselves might be getting gasolilne soaked or leaking (can't remember if they're composite or brass). This is a problem on the composite Del'Orto floats on my Gas-Gas and the fix is to just periodically replace 'em.

In super hot weather the oil in the backbone of the frame and engine heat work together to make the gasoline boil in the plastic tank on my XR-650L. You can come to a stop, shut down the engine and hear it bubbling. I'm going to try some insulation on the underside that Earl's Performance sells. Since there's no recirculation system to catch the fumes that's just MPG going up into the air.

Maybe a relocation of the gasoline tank on a 'liner might be something to consider if this was an issue. I saw a GSXR 750 with a very sano heat shield around the carburetors, too. This might not be a bad idea, either if problems like I'm experiencing on the XT continue and float corrections don't improve it.
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Old 07-31-2012, 08:48 AM   #18 (permalink)
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those are all very good ideas, remember also that the taller you get your gearing (without over stressing the engine), the less heat you will be making at highway speed.
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Old 08-01-2012, 08:34 PM   #19 (permalink)
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For those of us in Northern Climes the possibilty of having an oil cooler double as a heater core is very appealling in cold weather. A cheap and effective heat shield can be made from layers of gasket paper and aluminum flashing. Industrial supply houses sell insulating materials by sheet or roll.
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Old 08-02-2012, 07:39 PM   #20 (permalink)
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An alternative to the Yamaha/Lifan V-twin 250 (which is very heavily finned for styling purposes but also add to it's ability to reject heat) is the Suzuki GZ250. Single cylinder narrowness and air cooled simplicity. Mileage is almost as good as the Yammie. And they are typically even cheaper.

I'm considering this for my Dan Gurney Alligator-inspired project.

Another one is an old KLR250, water cooled goodness but the wheels are big dualsport sized.

Yeah, long stroke motors are hard to find especially in the smaller cc capacities. The Yamaha design even just feels better than most 250s because of the smooth, solid torque.

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