Linner Strømlinet Vogn (Now with 3D model!)

[CFECO]

Where I live, we have our summer "Monsoons" which cause normally dry wash crossings to rapidly flood. Crossing these are tricky at best, but larger, 4x4 vehicles do much better than small and light. The big problem is not the water but the sand you cannot see, which covers the pavement, sometimes a foot or more deep. The low cars get stuck in this moving sand, and get washed downstream. 2wd does good in dry sand, if it's rear engined like the VW sand-rails. These days the extreme of the sand buggy, is the "Sand Car". Some of these have well over 500HP and 24" of wheel travel, at a cost of over $100k. It must be nice having that kind of money to spend on...toys?
If I had that to spend, I'd have my car on the road...
4x4's with proper tires do well in the sand, snow, and rough terrain, but it will also get you farther "out-there" before you get stuck.
Sorry the photo's are so small, most people here probably don't want to see them anyway!

[Sven7]

Are you saying this happens to your public roads?



I imagine at that point the city/county would build a bridge. That's not the car companies' problem; it's the municipalities'. I imagine a Subaru Outback would do just fine in 99% of circumstances, right? There's no need for a Ford Expedition daily driver, right?

The Vogn is not meant to replace 4WD vehicles. It's not meant to ford water or cross the Alaskan tundra or any of that. It's meant to do what every other 2WD sedan in the world is meant to do.

[CFECO]

That is my driveway! Well it looks like it anyway, when it runs. No, as to the bridge question. There are probably hundreds of paved road wash crossings in the County, many are very shallow, but when the water flows it can be a hundred feet wide and over a 1 foot deep. They used to put culverts in these areas, sometimes 20 in a row, but when it ran the debris brought downstream by the water would have to be removed, every time. Big $ for govt. labor!
Daily driver Expedition, usually No, but a family with several kids, soccer equipment, that goes camping, up the mountain to ski, pulls a boat to the lake,etc. One vehicle to build that does everything the family needs, in a diesel?
I'm not a fan of Government telling people what they HAVE to drive, insurance they HAVE to buy, or how small a house they HAVE to live in, it should be a personal choice. If the government would ALLOW any vehicles we want, into the country, we'd have many better choices, Japanese Mini trucks for example.

[Sven7]

Originally Posted by CFECO

That is my driveway! Well it looks like it anyway, when it runs. No, as to the bridge question. There are probably hundreds of paved road wash crossings in the County, many are very shallow, but when the water flows it can be a hundred feet wide and over a 1 foot deep. They used to put culverts in these areas, sometimes 20 in a row, but when it ran the debris brought downstream by the water would have to be removed, every time. Big $ for govt. labor!
Daily driver Expedition, usually No, but a family with several kids, soccer equipment, that goes camping, up the mountain to ski, pulls a boat to the lake,etc. One vehicle to build that does everything the family needs, in a diesel?
I'm not a fan of Government telling people what they HAVE to drive, insurance they HAVE to buy, or how small a house they HAVE to live in, it should be a personal choice. If the government would ALLOW any vehicles we want, into the country, we'd have many better choices, Japanese Mini trucks for example.

Ok, cool. You can do what our family does. We have a '99 Yukon for pulling the horse trailer and the Boy Scout trailer (my dad's still active in the troop, but I "aged out" years ago). My mom drives an AWD Subaru wagon and my dad has a Passat wagon. When we need the SUV we have it, but otherwise drive more economical cars.

You don't "have" to do anything. In the summer I have three car options: 15mpg 1965 F100, 28mpg VW Rabbit and 40mpg Ford Probe. Each has its pros and cons. If I'm reading your post correctly you're more frustrated at the government regulations than you are at the Vogn's lack of offroad capability. That's fine, but you have to realize this is America- you can have almost anything you want if you're willing to pay for it. You've got to "pay to play" as it were. Of course a larger house will be more expensive. If you don't have the money for a mansion you will be "forced" to live in a smaller house. C'est la vie.

The reason we don't get so many cars here is that after they legalize them for crash, headlight, emissions and other regulations, not to mention importation and exchange rates, the cars would be prohibitively expensive. They couldn't compete in the marketplace. If you want a minitruck, fine. You live in Arizona. Go pick up an old SWB Hilux for $2000- we in the Northern climes can't find a clean one to save our lives. At any price. Talk about being forced to buy a certain vehicle. My Probe is younger than I am and it's got rust holes in both doors. We can't daily drive classic cars year round because the salt kills them. How's that for personal choice?

Sorry, that turned into a rant. I guess it comes down to the fact that you can have anything you want if you want to pay for it. One thing you don't want to pay for is someone without insurance t-boning your Avalon. Right?

PS- Due to daily cleaning, my own body has avoided oxidation. Humans fare much better than cars in this climate.

[Frank Lee]

Re: "needing" pickups, SUVs, 4wd, and stuff: Hogwash. It is that mentality that gets us all this full-size V8 4x4 crap rolling around all over creation on a daily basis instead of equipment much more suited to the task at hand. I too drive a lowered fwd compact through the winter and I live in one of the severest winter areas in the lower 48- Northern MN. Where I live the snow arguement is practically moot, as at the sign of the first flake a fleet of plow trucks with salt spreaders springs into action with blinding speed. And even if you do encounter some snow or some potholes you just need to be a little smart about it instead of plowing through everything like a mindless drone.

[Sven7]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Re: "needing" pickups, SUVs, 4wd, and stuff: Hogwash. It is that mentality that gets us all this full-size V8 4x4 crap rolling around all over creation on a daily basis instead of equipment much more suited to the task at hand. I too drive a lowered fwd compact through the winter and I live in one of the severest winter areas in the lower 48- Northern MN. Where I live the snow arguement is practically moot, as at the sign of the first flake a fleet of plow trucks with salt spreaders springs into action with blinding speed. And even if you do encounter some snow or some potholes you just need to be a little smart about it instead of plowing through everything like a mindless drone.

Whereabouts in Northern MN? It's a beautiful area.

To prove your point I ask everyone to look back into the 60's, when pickups were for contractors and SUV's essentially didn't exist. Just like you said, Frank, they drove to the conditions, as is recommended by traffic laws.

Anyway,

[CFECO]

Wow! I am sorry if I touched a nerve here, but the Govt. regs. I was referring to, are the exact ones that were mentioned back at me about the Japanese "Mini Trucks" making them too expensive to have here. I am referring to the Kei trucks, not old little Toyota or Datsuns. They were very good trucks, but were not in the "Mini" Kei class. It would be nice to have a vehicle for every purpose, but that's three vehicles to insure, register, park ( many HOAs will not allow multiple vehicles outside), maintain, and originally to produce. I am not saying everyone "needs" a (name the suv) but in many cases they do make sense, sorry.
Growing up, we always had a SUV, whether it was a 51 or 61 GMC pick up with a camper, or a 65 Chevy Suburban, or a Dodge Ramcharger. The Dodge was a daily driver and took the place of 3 vehicles.
On plowed roads you can drive most anything, in the sand, rocks, wash's, and up unplowed trails, pulling trailers, trees out of the road, etc. No one vehicle works as good as a 4x4 truck.
This is why I am here, try to make our existing vehicles "better",
and to come up with new vehicle from scratch, which will take a large step forward, sorry if that offends.

[Frank Lee]

...I ask everyone to look back into the 60's...

Good point. Another related point is that 4x4 in the regular traffic mix was virtually unheard of AT ALL- for pickups, much less cars and SUVS- until when- late '70s? Road conditions deteriorated so much in the last forty years that 2wd suddenly wasn't good enough?

[CFECO]

Out here 4x4's were in use on ranch's as long as I can remember, 57 years give or take. Willys wagons, trucks, and the FC's were abundant, along with Dodge Power Wagons, and occasional Ford Or Chevy conversions.
What happens in the Midwest, is not necessarily how it is everywhere, some of us, at least in the West do need trucks.
But just like I said in a post a few days ago, the two kids come to my place with their new Silverado's, jacked up,with 38" tires and they were "Two wheel drive". When I confronted them why?..."For the look", I was shocked. But that is what so much of todays society is about, the look, not who has a better idea, or is better qualified.

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by Sven7

I am, thanks. Does it have a clutch, though? Because that's half the point of a manual.

Note sure - Its actually called Multi-Mode Manual and is a 5 speed, but I will have a look at the handbook which explains it all - common to both transmissions.

EDIT - there is no info in the manual except how to start it with the MMT (shift to N, press brake pedal). This definition is on the Toyota website

MMT - MultiMode manual transmission
M/M uses the same mechanical components as a traditional manual, but with an electronically controlled clutch. Accelerator pedal should be treated in the same way as on a conventional manual but ease off slightly when requiring a gearchange. There are three mode settings:

M - Manual Mode (Sequential) for dynamic driving

Full control of gear changes
Real manual feel
Quick gearshift
Sequential sporty feel

E - Easy Mode (Automatic) for comfort and economy

Shifts are made for the driver
Manual transmission with clutchless gearchange
Accelerator control similar to standard manual

Es - Easy Sport Mode (Automatic) for sportier shift pattern

Shift pattern has been optimised for sportier performance
Recommended ‘auto’ mode
Accelerator control similar to standard manual

Originally Posted by Sven7

Those are still FWD, silly. Well, some are AWD but those were more expensive. No one makes RWD economy or midsize cars anymore- they're all luxo or sport rockets.

Ironically my Avatar was criticised when he made the idea of transverse engines and FWD popular in the 1960s. He was told his cars handled "too well" for ordinary people.