Linner Strømlinet Vogn (Now with 3D model!)

[Sven7]

Originally Posted by CFECO

Wow! I am sorry if I touched a nerve here, but the Govt. regs. I was referring to, are the exact ones that were mentioned back at me about the Japanese "Mini Trucks" making them too expensive to have here. I am referring to the Kei trucks, not old little Toyota or Datsuns. They were very good trucks, but were not in the "Mini" Kei class. It would be nice to have a vehicle for every purpose, but that's three vehicles to insure, register, park ( many HOAs will not allow multiple vehicles outside), maintain, and originally to produce. I am not saying everyone "needs" a (name the suv) but in many cases they do make sense, sorry.
Growing up, we always had a SUV, whether it was a 51 or 61 GMC pick up with a camper, or a 65 Chevy Suburban, or a Dodge Ramcharger. The Dodge was a daily driver and took the place of 3 vehicles.
On plowed roads you can drive most anything, in the sand, rocks, wash's, and up unplowed trails, pulling trailers, trees out of the road, etc. No one vehicle works as good as a 4x4 truck.
This is why I am here, try to make our existing vehicles "better",
and to come up with new vehicle from scratch, which will take a large step forward, sorry if that offends.

You didn't really touch a nerve so much as open a can of worms

Keitora are available through farm related outlets that may sell JD Gators and the like. I don't believe they're street legal though, unless you put a slow moving vehicle sign on the back. Just like driving a tractor on the road.

Here are some at a farm show in Iowa last year.

Keitora by Tyler Linner, on Flickr

Originally Posted by CFECO

Out here 4x4's were in use on ranch's as long as I can remember, 57 years give or take. Willys wagons, trucks, and the FC's were abundant, along with Dodge Power Wagons, and occasional Ford Or Chevy conversions.
What happens in the Midwest, is not necessarily how it is everywhere, some of us, at least in the West do need trucks.
But just like I said in a post a few days ago, the two kids come to my place with their new Silverado's, jacked up,with 38" tires and they were "Two wheel drive". When I confronted them why?..."For the look", I was shocked. But that is what so much of todays society is about, the look, not who has a better idea, or is better qualified.

If you've got a ranch I'm sure you could get some sort of tax breaks on owning a duty-specific truck. Then again, I'm no expert on insurance but wouldn't a commuter/grocery getter 50mpg Geo Metro recoup its insurance and gas costs over a 15mpg pickup truck? Depending on how much you drive of course.

Yes, I understand that some people need trucks. My aunt, a single mom, drives a 2500HD daily because she needs to pull a 5th wheel trailer a couple times a year, goes camping, has a dog and lives in Colorado. I get that.

Like it or not, though, the majority of the buying public does not own a car that needs to share commuting and ranching duties. Most of them will live in suburbs and own a Honda Accord, in which they will not drive in the snow because they don't know how to handle it.

The Vogn is intended to act as a daily driver- if your family has two cars- one for each spouse- this can act as one of them to save on your gas costs.

This car is not intended to replace 4x4 trucks. Moving on...

Originally Posted by Arragonis

Note sure - Its actually called Multi-Mode Manual and is a 5 speed, but I will have a look at the handbook which explains it all - common to both transmissions.

EDIT - there is no info in the manual except how to start it with the MMT (shift to N, press brake pedal). This definition is on the Toyota website

Ironically my Avatar was criticised when he made the idea of transverse engines and FWD popular in the 1960s. He was told his cars handled "too well" for ordinary people.

Ok, back on track!

Wikipedia makes mention of a manual:

Toyota has suggested, however, that only Aygos with automatic gearboxes are affected, and that those with manual gearboxes are not.[4]

It's funny that all the old ads say FWD handles so well, because in a similarly sized/weighted car it really sucks. I can say this from experience. Pushing a FWD car to the limit is not as exciting (or effective) as it should be. In an ideal world every car would be all wheel drive, all wheel steer.

[NeilBlanchard]

Good winters tires make my car nearly unstoppable: wet glare ice up hill, deep unplowed snow, all fine with a front wheel drive car and a manual shift helps, too. My wife's car has traction and stability control, front wheel drive and an automatic -- and with good winter tires, it too does very well indeed.

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by Sven7

Ok, back on track!

Wikipedia makes mention of a manual:

I can confirm there is no clutch pedal, its an electrickery controlled clutch. I went and sat in one to check but no test drive was forthcoming

Originally Posted by Sven7

It's funny that all the old ads say FWD handles so well, because in a similarly sized/weighted car it really sucks. I can say this from experience. Pushing a FWD car to the limit is not as exciting (or effective) as it should be.

But yes, size - my preference has always been for small cars, even a Focus would make me think I'm pulling a lot of weight and area around I'm not using. FWD can be exciting and reqarding "on the limit", you need to experience an original Mini (below) or a Peugeot 205 GTI. This guy is having fun.



The latter (the 205 GTI) I would take a small bet on being able to keep pace with the BMW 335 on a twisty road, and as for a Mustang the 205 would pull away - and this was a car from 1984. It can extreme though, this big Italian saloon / sedan has a Ferrari V8 in it from the 308/328 series - from the factory.

Originally Posted by Sven7

In an ideal world every car would be all wheel drive, all wheel steer.

AWD - In a car intended for bad weather or conditions then it is required. For a normal car for normal use I would say the additional weight, and complexity are a waste. There are quite a few threads with people running Subarus who don't get good FE vs similarly sized cars which do. Plus of course the guy who said 200hp is the limit for FWD was working for Audi selling us the benefits of something called Quattro. People here have taken SAAB 9000s to 350 and 400hp with FWD.

AWS - I think this was a fad introduced in the mid-80s by Honda and Mazda who were in a technology war at the time - the 626 Coupe vs the Prelude I think. Again for normal drivers in normal cars (not a Nissan GTR for example) AWS has little advantage over improved suspension design which we have now with things like passive rear steer.

Plus of course to take advantages of these advanced systems would take the skills of a driving god.

Which of course we all are, no ?

[Sven7]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

I can confirm there is no clutch pedal, its an electrickery controlled clutch. I went and sat in one to check but no test drive was forthcoming

But yes, size - my preference has always been for small cars, even a Focus would make me think I'm pulling a lot of weight and area around I'm not using. FWD can be exciting and reqarding "on the limit", you need to experience an original Mini (below) or a Peugeot 205 GTI. This guy is having fun.

The latter (the 205 GTI) I would take a small bet on being able to keep pace with the BMW 335 on a twisty road, and as for a Mustang the 205 would pull away - and this was a car from 1984. It can extreme though, this big Italian saloon / sedan has a Ferrari V8 in it from the 308/328 series - from the factory.

AWD - In a car intended for bad weather or conditions then it is required. For a normal car for normal use I would say the additional weight, and complexity are a waste. There are quite a few threads with people running Subarus who don't get good FE vs similarly sized cars which do. Plus of course the guy who said 200hp is the limit for FWD was working for Audi selling us the benefits of something called Quattro. People here have taken SAAB 9000s to 350 and 400hp with FWD.

AWS - I think this was a fad introduced in the mid-80s by Honda and Mazda who were in a technology war at the time - the 626 Coupe vs the Prelude I think. Again for normal drivers in normal cars (not a Nissan GTR for example) AWS has little advantage over improved suspension design which we have now with things like passive rear steer.

Plus of course to take advantages of these advanced systems would take the skills of a driving god.

Which of course we all are, no ?

I'll have to find a real manual from the parts bin then.

On small cars and FWD: Yes, I too prefer small cars. I'm not saying FWD can't be fun to drive but it inherently is less efficient in a traction sense. When I said the thing about AWD and AWS I meant it in a racing application. Sorry for the confusion!

I have personally gotten my Rabbit's tail to step out without the e-brake on multiple occasions (on pavement), so I know what FWD can do at the limit. It's much safer for beginners than RWD but if you're serious about racing it's hard to beat rear or all.

For those who don't know what I'm talking about. Your tires can only make so much grip. Driving the front wheels which also steer puts more strain on them than if you turned with the fronts and drove with the rear.


My friend's dad has a first gen Saab 9-3 putting down something ridiculous for hp. I can't remember, but that would smoke a Mustang GT in its sleep.

And yes, I am a driving god.

[Arragonis]

We are all driving gods.

Back on the lammerthingywatsit... What manual is it you need ? There is an "Brief Intro" manual online somewhere, all the full one says about the MMT is footbrake needed to start and shift from N, and how to unlock it if it gets stuck.

[320touring]

Sven7...

I'd look up the BTCC (British Touring Cars) re the FWD/RWD on track debate..

However, I will say this- I only drive RWD- for exactly the reasons you state- each set of wheels doing one thing.

Thinking about your design- could you not utilise an engine from something like a toyota Previa, but much smaller capacity?

Thesea are floor mounted units, and would mean you could avoid having to package the engine at the front...

[Arragonis]

Previa is a big engine but it is at a steep angle. 2.4 litre 4 cylinder.

The new Previa is FWD

EDIT - I did mention a flat four earlier if you wanted to get a low floor and a mid -engine layout for RWD.

[320touring]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

Previa is a big engine but it is at a steep angle. 2.4 litre 4 cylinder.

The new Previa is FWD

EDIT - I did mention a flat four earlier if you wanted to get a low floor and a mid -engine layout for RWD.

I was just referencing the previa as its the first "engine under the floor" car that spranfg to mind..

Surely some of the Kei Vans have a Mid /rear floor setup- I know the Suzuki Supercarry does!

[Arragonis]

You mean bedford rascal style ? I see where you are coming from

[Sven7]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

We are all driving gods.

Back on the lammerthingywatsit... What manual is it you need ? There is an "Brief Intro" manual online somewhere, all the full one says about the MMT is footbrake needed to start and shift from N, and how to unlock it if it gets stuck.

Manual as in stick shift. The car should be available with three pedals if the drivers wants. I know that's what I'd want and that's what most other car and driving enthusiasts would go for.

Originally Posted by 320touring

Thinking about your design- could you not utilise an engine from something like a toyota Previa, but much smaller capacity?

Thesea are floor mounted units, and would mean you could avoid having to package the engine at the front...

Front engine, front wheel drive has already been decided upon. The rear of the car can be storage. I was thinking of making it open like this design I found on Simkom.com/sketchsite. It's a really cool place to find good rendering examples