Linner Strømlinet Vogn (Now with 3D model!)

[CFECO]

Quote,
Rear engine cars only handle better at the hands of experienced drivers. Anyone else taking them to the limit will have a much greater chance of lifting off mid turn and spinning into oblivion. FWD cars are economical, predictable and ubiquitous. THIS IS NOT A RACING CAR. IT'S A 4 PERSON COMMUTER SEDAN. Besides, with active camber it should handle pretty well regardless.

I said REAR DRIVE cars handle better, rear engine cars can have better traction under acceleration, but handling IS an issue, due to the Moment Of Inertia. That is why locating the largest mass, usually the drivetrain system and passengers, between the front and rear axles will produce the most predictable handling, with the least surprises. FWD cars are cheaper to produce because of assembly benefits. Predictable in that they will understeer just like rear drive cars will oversteer, under power. And they are ubiquitous because of the first reason, cheap and easy to make. Better, I think not , if the goal is an aerodynamic car with the best all around dynamics. Start with the template or similar shape, place 4 passengers in the front where the body is the largest, if going for FWD then there is only realistic room for maybe an electric motor above the foot well.
We are all here for the same goal...creating more efficient transportation.
More power to you and your project, I just think the way they have always done it, can be improved on.

[Frank Lee]

I currently own several rear-engined vehicles and for the street there are pros and cons and IMHO, mostly cons.

[CFECO]

Yep! How we ever survived, tearing through the desert in a 61 Corvair, without seatbelts, or seats! You turn the transmission around and mid-mount a 327, and it becomes a car on rails....almost. Mid-engine is great except for access.

[Frank Lee]

One thing is, out in the real world day in and day out you mainly use cars to carry stuff, and when the stuff is too big for the trunk you let it stick out and bungee the trunk lid down if needed... not so on a rear engine/front trunk vehicle. You have to leave it behind, go get the truck, go get a trailer, or whatever.

[Frank Lee]

Another thing is- especially with small light cars- weight variation with a front trunk from empty to loaded has a major impact on handling and steering feel (P.S. braking too), while the impacts on handling and steering (P.S. and braking) feel are but a fraction of that with a rear trunk. On old Bugs and Corvairs there is even a quite noticeable difference depending on how much gas is in the tank.

[Arragonis]

I'm glad you are trying to design a mass market car rather than a niche one, it has more impact to more people. If you are looking for a compact and cheap engine then the one in my car may be an option.



3cyl 1.0 and weighs 68 kilos. I have read of one guy using it to replace the 4 cyl alloy unit in his rear engined Hillman Imp because of its lower weight. It was also international engine of the year in the sub 1litre category taking over from the Honda Insight IMA unit in 2007 and beaten this year by the FIAT TwinAir - which is not all that impressive according to real world tests.

The big plastic box on top is the air filter, the engine itself is underneath. The nose is also quite short as shown here



and it could even be a little shorter if the tiny radiator is moved to the side.

[NeilBlanchard]

Given that an electric drivetrain would be almost 3X more efficient, and require far less (almost no?) cooling air flow, have you considered this?

[kach22i]

The problem I've always had with this sort of basic design is that the windshield gets moved a couple of feet more away from the driver. I've always been a little unsure the impact of this upon the driver.

If you compare an old Porsche or VW to modern cars, the windshield is much closer in the older cars. My question is, how far is too far? At what point does that long dash remove the driver from his or her environment, destroying sight lines and focal points?

Another study for conversation purposes, using the last car mentioned.

Industrial Design pictures by kach22i - Photobucket


If going with FWD, it may take re-skin job of an existing automobile to make this car possible with the least amount of work. I don't think the Aygo windshield is what Sven had in mind, just offering the seating position and profile up as a comparison.

[Frank Lee]

Drive a "dustbuster" GM minivan to see what a really far away windshield is like...

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Another thing is- especially with small light cars- weight variation with a front trunk from empty to loaded has a major impact on handling and steering feel ....................

In my 1977 911 (2,450 lbs) adding my 300 lb friend as a passenger does far worse than a full tank of gas, by a factor of 10.

Adding a 250 lb friend in the front passenger seat, and another 250 lb passenger sitting sideways in the rear seats is almost dangerous under certain conditions. I once followed several exotics at speed on some curvy roads this way, which is how I also discovered one of the drop links on my rear sway bar was broken off. The car was not fun to drive then, when the Germans list a passenger weight limit on a car, they really mean it.

Frank Lee, you have to list your rear engine vehicles, you have me very curious now.

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Drive a "dustbuster" GM minivan to see what a really far away windshield is like...

Year and Model?

Are you talking about the Pontiac Trans-Sport?

EDIT: Found This.......................
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldsmobile_Silhouette

The design of these minivans was controversial. At the time that the Oldsmobile Silhouette and its siblings were conceived, no one had tried to market a stylish or sporty minivan, and GM felt that this represented a potentially large market segment. They styled these minivans to be lower and sleeker than the competing brands. The extremely large, long and sloped windshield and the resultant long distance to the base of the windshield when sitting in the drivers seat made for a disconcerting driving experience until a person could adjust to the "different" proportions. Automotive magazines christened the new minivans "dustbusters" after a household appliance with a similar profile.