Linner Strømlinet Vogn (Now with 3D model!)

[Frank Lee]

71 Super Beetle, 66 Corvair, 60 Microbus. Used to have several VW Busses and Squarebacks, one that I put a Corvair engine into. Still have that engine with the Crown VW conversion kit... wish I'd have kept the Squareback too.

The Corvair has a very large trunk and it's easy to load heavily enough to totally transform the handling.

[kach22i]

My Trans-Sport story:

About 25 years ago I was waiting at a traffic light on Orchard Lake road (West Bloomfield, MI). The traffic to the left (right angle) of me was making their right hand turn off of 12 mile road. I'm sitting there in my 1986 VW Diesel Golf as I watch this elderly lady take the turn too fast and almost roll her Trans-Sport van into me. I'm trying to remember, but I think she took the turn to fast and too wide and hit the curb divider between North and South traffic. She did flip the vehicle, and it slid on it's side and then roof somewhat parallel to me going in the other direction.

This accident was definitely driver error. Was it induced by age? Unfamiliarity with the vehicle? Prescription medication? I'll never know for sure, but I do know that the looks of the van did not match it's handling, at least not in an old ladies hands.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

71 Super Beetle, 66 Corvair, 60 Microbus.

I once had a 1976 Super Beetle, and always liked the second gen Corvair. The microbus, is it the one with all the little skylight windows? Cool list, nice cars.

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by kach22i

...Another study for conversation purposes, using the last car mentioned.

Industrial Design pictures by kach22i - Photobucket


If going with FWD, it may take re-skin job of an existing automobile to make this car possible with the least amount of work. I don't think the Aygo windshield is what Sven had in mind, just offering the seating position and profile up as a comparison.

My intention was only to offer the engine/trans package as an alternative rather than the whole car and the profile was to show how short the nose part (ahead of the front wheels) is. However thanks for mashing this up, saves me the effort of learning graphical packages I never understand - MSPaint is my friend.

As someone who doodles rather than designs cars I'm enjoying watching the process of professionals at work

EDIT - The Aygo is not far off the front of the profile is it, must get on with that Kamm idea I mentioned on George's thread - so double thanks

[Sven7]

Originally Posted by CFECO

I said REAR DRIVE cars handle better,

Oops, misread it. RWD cars do handle better. Traction circle.

Originally Posted by CFECO

Better, I think not , if the goal is an aerodynamic car with the best all around dynamics. Start with the template or similar shape, place 4 passengers in the front where the body is the largest, if going for FWD then there is only realistic room for maybe an electric motor above the foot well.

The goal is an inexpensive car with great mpg. Most people won't push their car to the limit even if they have a sports model. It's not worth the money, not to mention packaging penalties of a longitudinal engine, transmission and driveshaft, to make it RWD.

The only realistic place for an engine is right where it is in every other FWD car on the road. That's where I'm putting it. It's going to be FWD and that's the last word. It will be FWD. 110%. Definitely.

Originally Posted by Arragonis

I'm glad you are trying to design a mass market car rather than a niche one, it has more impact to more people. If you are looking for a compact and cheap engine then the one in my car may be an option.



3cyl 1.0 and weighs 68 kilos. I have read of one guy using it to replace the 4 cyl alloy unit in his rear engined Hillman Imp because of its lower weight. It was also international engine of the year in the sub 1litre category taking over from the Honda Insight IMA unit in 2007 and beaten this year by the FIAT TwinAir - which is not all that impressive according to real world tests.

The big plastic box on top is the air filter, the engine itself is underneath. The nose is also quite short as shown here



and it could even be a little shorter if the tiny radiator is moved to the side.

That looks about perfect! Do you know of any good photos and/or measurements of the engine so I can package it?

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

Given that an electric drivetrain would be almost 3X more efficient, and require far less (almost no?) cooling air flow, have you considered this?

It would be tons more efficient but until batteries become much, much less expensive it's not economically viable with this particular design. One of my two goals is to make it affordable, and electric cars, though I love them, are too expensive because of the batteries.

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Drive a "dustbuster" GM minivan to see what a really far away windshield is like...

That, the EV1, Prius, basically anything FWD and aero minded. I see it as a necessary evil. I looked inside an EV1 yesterday and it really doesn't seem all that bad. The problem is GM didn't style the instrument panel to conceal the great depth. Toyota did a great job of that with the Prius, though.



(concept)


Whoa!!! Maserati Boomerang, anyone?

Originally Posted by kach22i

My Trans-Sport story:

While I see where you're coming from, I could also insert Toyota Avalon, Cadillac DTS or Buick Park Avenue and the story would still make complete sense.

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by Sven7

That looks about perfect! Do you know of any good photos and/or measurements of the engine so I can package it?

I'll see if I can find a few "nekkid" pics, but if you want detail measurements and photos I have one sat outside

EDIT - the engine code is 1KR-FE. Bung that into Google Images and you get loads of pics. If you want pics or measurements of other things like the tiny radiator etc. let me know and I'll be out with a tape measure asap.

EDIT2 - it may come up as a Daihatsu engine, it is the same one - Toyota owns Daihatsu.

EDIT3 - I'll be happy to take photos too.

[Sven7]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

I'll see if I can find a few "nekkid" pics, but if you want detail measurements and photos I have one sat outside

EDIT - the engine code is 1KR-FE. Bung that into Google Images and you get loads of pics. If you want pics or measurements of other things like the tiny radiator etc. let me know and I'll be out with a tape measure asap.

EDIT2 - it may come up as a Daihatsu engine, it is the same one - Toyota owns Daihatsu.

EDIT3 - I'll be happy to take photos too.

I looked it up. Looks like a great engine!

EDIT - If you can find any straight on front or side pics that would be great. My searches came up dry.

EDIT2 - Even if you could take measurements on your car. I just need to make a dummy box in the model to show the rough size of the engine and radiator. And maybe what angle it is tilted at to fit under the hood.

EDIT3 - Thanks

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by Sven7

I looked it up. Looks like a great engine!

EDIT - If you can find any straight on front or side pics that would be great. My searches came up dry.

EDIT2 - Even if you could take measurements on your car. I just need to make a dummy box in the model to show the rough size of the engine and radiator. And maybe what angle it is tilted at to fit under the hood.

EDIT3 - Thanks

I'll try and do that this evening, at work at the moment although they are used to me doing odd things like climbing underneath my car in the car park...

[Arragonis]

PS - The Toyota iQ has the same engine, but mounts it differently to save even more space - the engine centre is behind the front axle - does this make it mid-engined ?

So on a search I found this which includes a wheel profile and measurements :



from here

Toyota iQ: six degrees of innovation – No1

As you can see the iQ mount is also slightly tilted to save space. If you follow the link there are also details on the differential which is, er, different from conventional types, as well as other space saving stuff such as a compact AC unit, centre take off steering etc.

For reference the iQ I think has 15 inch wheels. Again there is one round the corner from where I work and I have chatted to the owner before, he may let me take some pics.

I'll still take pics and measurements of George's more conventional mounting if you need them.

[Sven7]

Great diagrams! I would be very interested in both knowing how wide that engine is, and where it sits in your Aygo and the PSA cars.