Most economical minivan?

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

Those are all for career employees. When you first start you are some kind of "assistant" which means no paid vacation, no medical for a year, no TSP, the time you work doesn't count toward tour retirement multiple. This status used to go on for an indefinite time, many were in 3-5 years before converting to career. Now they made it automatic after 2 years but still. That's a long 2 years when everything is run by seniority and there is only a single $.50/hr raise baked in the whole time. Also if an aera is short, those people are forced to work pretty consistently 60 hours and many places deliver 7 days a week.

Edit: I was wrong about the health benifits, the PO will contribute $3250, towards a health plan your first year. That probably changed with the ACA. Your 2nd year it's 65% of whatever plan you choose.

Sounds WAY better to me than working at a McDonalds or coffee shop for anyone thinking long-term. 2 years as a temp isn't that bad but could be better. (I think we are 6 months before the benefits kick in). 2, 5, 10, 15 years out that fast food worker or cashier is likely to still be in that same entry level job making entry level wages.

Again it is the difference between long term and short term thinking and most people are REALLY bad at thinking in terms of decades. The best time for someone to get into any union job is early - teens or 20's. However, most people in their 20's aren't thinking about medical insurance or retirement - they care about what goes in their pocket today. They aren't thinking about how great it will be to have 5 weeks paid time off in 15 years.

Yes, union jobs have everything based on seniority. It is rough early on but is great once you have put in some time and have first choice for jobs, overtime, and vacation.

Personal opinion - a union job is still the best job someone with just a high-school diploma can hope for.

[Piotrsko]

Mostly. Best option for a non college person without high powered friends and mentors in large corporations.

Large emphasis on friends in high places.

[Hersbird]

UPS is just the better choice if you want this career. They start higher and within 5 years you will be making more than I do after 23 years at USPS. 23 years ago they were all much closer, I wanted my Navy time to count as well which it does for those with military or other federal employment.

I think even working for a FedEx ground private contractor may be better too.

I tell many people it almost doesn't matter where you go to work, if you stick with the same organization for 30 years and work you will be in a good position. I could have started at Walmart 23 years ago and if worked as hard as I have here would probably be making more money there by now. What the PO might be good for is someone who doesn't want to actually work hard or apply themselves to move up as they will still pay well and just let you skate along. All hard work gets you here is more work, everyone gets the same money.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

Those are all for career employees. When you first start you are some kind of "assistant" which means no paid vacation, no medical for a year, no TSP, the time you work doesn't count toward tour retirement multiple. This status used to go on for an indefinite time, many were in 3-5 years before converting to career. Now they made it automatic after 2 years but still. That's a long 2 years when everything is run by seniority and there is only a single $.50/hr raise baked in the whole time. Also if an aera is short, those people are forced to work pretty consistently 60 hours and many places deliver 7 days a week.

Edit: I was wrong about the health benifits, the PO will contribute $3250, towards a health plan your first year. That probably changed with the ACA. Your 2nd year it's 65% of whatever plan you choose.

My previous job gave pay cuts somewhere around my 5th year. By my 7th year, pay raises had brought it back up to where it was when I started. 2 weeks paid vacation. Benefits never changed (though they became more costly). My 8th year I put in my 2 week notice, but they accepted my offer to stay for a 25% pay increase. 3 years later I moved on.

2 year probation is nothing.

[freebeard]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

UPS is just the better choice if you want this career.

Choose your hill wisely.

https://texasguntalk.com › threads › ups-no-longer-allows-firearms-shipping-by-unlicensed-ffl-individuals.114479
UPS No Longer Allows Firearms Shipping By Unlicensed (FFL) Individuals ...
9 Sept 2022You now need to hold an FFL and have an "approved agreement" with UPS to ship firearms and firearms products!.This is going to boost long gun and parts shipping at the USPS and handgun shipping through FFLs on the sending end. According to their site: I think I will be using the post office more than before for everything, just screw UPS.

[redpoint5]

I'd give Amazon a whirl just to experience the slave conditions people talk about firsthand. Maybe I'd get to experience peeing my pants because they don't allow bathroom breaks?

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

UPS is just the better choice if you want this career. They start higher and within 5 years you will be making more than I do after 23 years at USPS. 23 years ago they were all much closer, I wanted my Navy time to count as well which it does for those with military or other federal employment.

Maybe 15+ years out. The local UPS depot is advertising package handler jobs for $15.50 an hour plus weekly attendance bonuses.

In 5 years you would likely still be working as a part-time package handler working 20 hrs hours a week and starting at 3 am. UPS has no direct path to a driving job and lots of the office jobs require degrees. You work as a package stacking grunt in the warehouse until enough drivers retire or quit to move you up the seniority list to get a shot as a driver.

I worked as an UPS package handler in college for 2 years and wasn't close to a driver slot. On the plus side with the early shift you can work UPS as a 2nd job to get medical benefits. A LOT of the long time package handlers were doing that.

Originally Posted by Hersbird

I think even working for a FedEx ground private contractor may be better too.

The 2nd time I worked for UPS was in 2015 as a seasonal driver for the Christmas rush. I had a bunch of FedEx ground drivers in my training class. They said they got paid better as a seasonal driver at UPS than they did as a full-time driver at FedEx contractors. Looking at FedEx proper - their package handler employees get medical, 401K with 4% match, no pension, and 1 hr of PTO for every 20 hours worked. In a standard year that would be 2 1/2 weeks.

Originally Posted by Hersbird

I tell many people it almost doesn't matter where you go to work, if you stick with the same organization for 30 years and work you will be in a good position. I could have started at Walmart 23 years ago and if worked as hard as I have here would probably be making more money there by now. What the PO might be good for is someone who doesn't want to actually work hard or apply themselves to move up as they will still pay well and just let you skate along. All hard work gets you here is more work, everyone gets the same money.

Anywhere you work if you work hard you will get more work without much more pay. Promotions are based on likability not performance. Being good can help of course but if the managers don't like you you aren't moving up.

When it comes time for layoffs it works the opposite. I've seen some of the most productive employees let go first because they just sit at their desk and get things done instead of socializing. Nobody wants to fire their friends or drinking buddies but the shy nerd in the corner - who is going to miss them? At least that has been how it has worked at the 8 places I've worked in my career.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

I'd give Amazon a whirl just to experience the slave conditions people talk about firsthand. Maybe I'd get to experience peeing my pants because they don't allow bathroom breaks?

I got a chuckle at the articles about how Amazon drivers are so rushed they had to pee in a bottle. That is exactly what the drivers did at UPS - myself included.

I was a bit shocked that reports said drivers were leaving their pee bottles in the van. That is just gross - take care of your own pee people.

[freebeard]

IIRC in East Texas oil fields it's right out the [cracked open] pickup truck door.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by JSH

I was a bit shocked that reports said drivers were leaving their pee bottles in the van.

Not sure about delivery van drivers, but in my country there were reports that cash-transit van guards were doing that.