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Old 02-06-2021, 05:01 PM   #11 (permalink)
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It looks a heck of a lot better with that primer paint job.

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Old 02-06-2021, 05:34 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Cd View Post
Lol, this just keeps getting better and better.

So I'd absolutely love to ride one of these things around, but I don't like the idea of being crushed to death.

How do you ride this on a public road without worry ?

It just seems so incredibly dangerous.
It's much akin to driving a classic British sportscar from the 1950s or 1960s. If you wreck, you're ****ed.

I used to ride a normal upright bicycle on these roadways, so from a safety perspective, this trike is a significant step up. I am aware of the risks, so it isn't entirely without worry per se. The vehicle itself isn't inherently dangerous, it's all of the large vehicles on the roads operated by inattentive drivers that make it dangerous to operate.

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Originally Posted by Grant-53 View Post
This may well be state of the art.
The state of the art may be designed by an aerodynamacist and typically uses a carbon fiber composite epoxy-bonded construction monocoque.

Mine is plastic on a steel frame, which is rather amateur by comparison. My financial resources are limited, so this has dictated my material choices.

Quote:
Depending on state DMV regs it would be considered a motorcycle.
In my state, it fits neither the definition of a "motorcycle", "moped", "autocycle", or "motor-assisted bicycle". It's had no actual throttle, and like an unmotorized bicycle, its top speed is "as fast as you can pedal it". It's just that in my case, I have it set up to where I can reach the limits of my motor at my current battery voltage. A random out-of-shape person given the chance to ride it might have difficulty exceeding 30 mph on flat ground. I am going to put a throttle with a 20 mph limit on it as backup though, in order to mitigate the risk of being stranded just in case something in the pedal drivetrain fails.

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Items to consider might be a wind screen, lap belt, lighting package, and a dynamic braking circuit. For those more concerned about crash testing use aluminum honeycomb instead of plastic skin
The next one I do is going to have all that plus a roll cage, hydraulic brakes, DOT wheels/tires, thicker axles/hubs with cotter pins, and hopefully improved aerodynamics. I'm going to set it up to do 100+ mph top speed, but still be perfectly pedalable with everything disabled. It will basically be a miniature Electrathon car with a pedal drivetrain, and the goal is to keep the finished vehicle ready to ride under 100 lbs. I want it to be capable of dynamically stable/mechanically reliable freeway cruising at 70 mph with the motor turned on, and with the motor turned off capable of sub 4-hour century rides and sprints to 40+ mph by a fit rider.

The idea is to build a 5,000+ MPGe "car" that is so efficient you can turn everything off and pedal it, but while operating with the motor on, for human pedal input to add a significant amount of motive force at all operating points. If it is sufficiently aerodynamic, 100 mph may be possible on only 5 horsepower, and a powerful rider could easily accommodate 20% of that requirement for a few seconds or even minutes at a time! And to make it better appeal to the general public, it needs some ass-hauling capability. If it can actually accelerate like a car, the size of its potential niche could increase.

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People are far too frightened by thoughts of riding on public roads. Learn the traffic rules and maintain a 3 sec. spacing. Pick a route and be polite. It's kept me alive for 60 years.
It's the ones who do not pay attention or are even malicious while behind the wheel of a multi-ton missile that can ruin one's fun in an instant. There is nothing one an do to mitigate that risk. But what you listed is generally good advice and I've been following it well.
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Old 02-06-2021, 05:46 PM   #13 (permalink)
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May I suggest a different layout? Instead of tapered gores, use a geodesic layout. You can choose a level of quasi-compoundcurvedness, The trick is to use an octahedral instead of icosahedral base. This gives three axes you can orient to longitudinal and traverse, the vertical gets locked in.

For seams you can use triangles, diamonds or hexagons. Diamonds can be chained into strips. A hexagon will have one seam running from one corner to the center.
The Facet V1 coroplast-bodied velomobile does something similar.

https://www.instructables.com/Facet-V1-Velomobile/

I need access to some sort of CFD software that spits out some numbers before I devote the time investment into this. I'd like to get it right!

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Cd: Consider the size of an F1 racer's cockpit. It's no larger.
My opening was sized so that I can mount the computer and speedometer on the boom and still see them without having to lower my head from seeing the road. I intend to enclose the trike with a windshield and roof.

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An I-can't-believe-i'm-seeing-this paint job reduces safety. A Baphomet hood ornament is begging.
That's sort of the joke. It is a rolling coffinmobile after all. I do want random drivers to notice it's in front of them at least so that I don't get run down, and something outlandish like this will do that. Plus it will fit the theme and design-philosophy of the vehicle as "off grid" transportation.
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Old 02-06-2021, 08:51 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I need access to some sort of CFD software that spits out some numbers before I devote the time investment into this. I'd like to get it right!
I've got the stimulus money sitting in my credit union account; if there're no unexpected expenses in the next week, I'll throw down for a new Mac Mini. First new computer since 2002. I hope the ML Compute Framework in Big Sur will enable CFD, down the road, but at least I can picked up Blender again. The illustration above was done in Wings 3D.

In either program you can pick off the dimensions to incredible accuracy. The prolated spheroid with a 40/60 bias on the max camber follows the [denigrated/deprecated]Template for 3/4 of it's length.

Consider a 2v birdcarge inside a 4v shell. Polymetal instead of Coroplast.
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Old 02-11-2021, 10:32 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Reminds me an awful lot of the one I built. Mine wasn't as stable at high speeds or in a cross wind, and there aren't a ton of good places to ride it around here. I might have to build another someday.


Trying to recall what motor I used. Might have been a Leafbike? I have a thread on it somewhere. I want to say I was pushing in excess of 6000w through mine for short bursts.
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Old 02-11-2021, 10:38 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Let a friend ride it:

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Old 02-13-2021, 10:37 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Reminds me an awful lot of the one I built. Mine wasn't as stable at high speeds or in a cross wind, and there aren't a ton of good places to ride it around here. I might have to build another someday.
If you do so, try to focus on aerodynamic efficiency. The vehicle will improve in nearly all measurements by doing so. You could always use parts from your previous build to keep costs down.

I designed mine not only to be efficient, but also usable over bad roads at speed. My front scrapes the ground maybe once every 2,000-3,000 miles, and only when riding unpaved surfaces or on gravel roads. I have 4.5" ground clearance. It also has front suspension. Riding over rough roads generally does not cause the body shell to ever make contact with the road.

Regarding efficiency, I still have a massive amount of room for improvement. Outboard wheels are terrible for drag.

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Trying to recall what motor I used. Might have been a Leafbike? I have a thread on it somewhere. I want to say I was pushing in excess of 6000w through mine for short bursts.
You initially used a MAC geared hub motor and switched to a Leafbike direct drive.
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Old 02-25-2021, 08:10 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Fantastic job on this - congratulations.

Do you have flashing lights on the back? I notice flags sticking up on the back of bikes too but that would look out of place on this machine. Maybe consider a programmable light show that would really grab driver's attention. Maybe that would be a bad thing though.
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Old 02-25-2021, 09:44 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Thanks for posting this!

My PEBL is not nearly as efficient or as fast - or as stable in turns, etc. But is a bit easier to get in and out of, I imagine, and has m0re storage capacity, and has a roof, and is possibly warmer in the winter.
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Old 02-25-2021, 01:44 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Do you have flashing lights on the back?
I have one flashing red LED light on the back. It is placed on top of the turtledeck.

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Maybe consider a programmable light show that would really grab driver's attention. Maybe that would be a bad thing though.
I intend to eventually have that as part of a running lights feature for both day and night riding, as well as a permanently integrated headlight, brake light, and turn signals.

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Thanks for posting this!

My PEBL is not nearly as efficient or as fast - or as stable in turns, etc. But is a bit easier to get in and out of, I imagine, and has m0re storage capacity, and has a roof, and is possibly warmer in the winter.

A roof and windshield are going to soon be installed for riding in the rain. The outboard wheels splash water and road grime into my face between 7 mph and 18 mph.

The PEBL is a heavy thing. How hard is it to pedal with the motor turned off or with a dead battery?

Mine is the way it is to allow operation independent of the electric drive. If the battery is ever run dead or an electrical component necessary to drive the vehicle fails, I can still do 20+ mph on flat ground for an effort that could be maintained for hours at a time and sprint to 35+ mph for brief periods, even with the motor's additional mass and cogging losses slowing me down.

In the long run, I plan to build a 100 lb "car" inspired by Electrathon racers that can be similarly operated, except that the rider will be able to add pedal input at all operable speeds including what may be a top speed of 100+ mph, but will still be able to turn everything off and hopefully the machine will be efficient enough to pull sub 4-hour century rides or sprints to 40+ mph on human power alone. The plan is to make a full suspension roll cage on wheels that uses light-duty DOT 16" motorcycle rims on all 3 wheels with Mitas MC2 low rolling resistance tires, hydraulic brakes, and a Schlumpf HS drive on the pedal crank with a sufficiently wide gear range to allow anything from slogging up steep hills at 3 mph with a 60 rpm cadence to careening down the highway at 100 mph with a 140 rpm cadence, and everything in between. Having both a human power drivetrain as well as an electric hub motor will also greatly reduce the risk of ever being left stranded. I think a 100 mile range @ 70 mph and 300 miles range @ 30 mph is possible in such a thing with a very modest 1.5-2 kWh battery pack. Performance would only be limited by downforce/lift and the type of hubmotors available on the market. There are no synchronous reluctance or synchronous reactance hub motors of appropriate size with bicycle cassette/freewheel compatibility on the market, but a 7 lb motor of this sort could make 50 horsepower peak and 6-8 horsepower continuous if it were made, which would allow Tesla-like acceleration. In such a low mass vehicle, it would be difficult to design it for stability at much of anything over 100 mph, so that would be a good end point for ultimate top speed, no matter the peak power. Given the state of the ebike hub motors available on the market being behind the technology by a decade, I have to make due with a cheap Chinese Leafbike 1000W or 1500W PMDC that can make about 10 horsepower peak and 2-3 horsepower continuous. A Leafbike motor should be good for 0-60 mph ~ 10 seconds and a cruising speed until drained battery of 90 mph if set up properly, without overheating. Throw some solar panels on it and it would be a very versatile vehicle. If tiny microturbine generators of < 2 lbs or diesel fuel cells ever become affordable/available, it will become even more versatile still, and get the equivalent of thousands of miles per gallon when running on these things. There's also the tantalizing prospect of solid state batteries of 500+ wh/kg that could turn that 100 mile range @ 70 mph into 200 miles, and allow a design that will last longer than the operator without major/expensive repairs.

With improving technology, so many interesting design possibilities are opening up...


Last edited by The Toecutter; 02-25-2021 at 02:51 PM..
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