My Solar PV Thread

[hayden55]

So redpoint would it not be cheaper to do a grid-tie inverter with built in mppt? Is there a specific reason why you are doing individual mppt? Do you have a lot of issues with shading? Seems extra expensive.

[oil pan 4]

For me solar is worth 10 cents a kwh to cover consumption. Then to 0 out the surcharge it drops down to 3 cents a kwh.
So for me it only makes sense to 0 out my consumption.
I would have to install about 5.4kw to cover that $25.
If I did ground mounts, cheap as hell would still take around 10 years to pay back.
But I'm limited to 10kw. And 10kw should 0 out my consumption even in the summer.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by hayden55

Pretty much. I think the thing with electric cars is ridiculous as well. Gotta actually pay enough in taxes to get their tax credit. So everyone under 60k+ is **** out of luck.

There's a couple tricks there, but it still requires having money in the first place. You can convert an IRA into a Roth by paying taxes on the money the year you convert it. This bumps up your tax liability that year, which you can cover with the EV credit. You effectively get your retirement taxes paid for by the credit.

There is a 26% federal tax credit available on solar installation in addition to the 2 cash subsidies. My parents don't have enough tax liability, but if my dad converts his IRA into a Roth, those taxes will be covered by the tax credit.
My parents combined income probably never exceeded about $35,000.

[hayden55]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

There's a couple tricks there, but it still requires having money in the first place. You can convert an IRA into a Roth by paying taxes on the money the year you convert it. This bumps up your tax liability that year, which you can cover with the EV credit. You effectively get your retirement taxes paid for by the credit.

my man. Gonna have to keep this one in the bag over the years.

[redpoint5]

Further pricing breakdown from Company 1:

Parents 7.8 kW ground mount:
$23,450 total cost = $3.01/W
9,693 kWh annual production
$1,282 annual value of solar production @ 12 cents
Oregon incentive -$5,000
Energy Trust -$9,000
Out of pocket $9,450
Federal tax credit -$2,457 @ 26%
Net $6,993 $0.90 watt
5.5 year payback from electricity alone assuming no inflation

Modules: Hanwha Q.cell 390-watt mono x20 $269.07 $5,381.40
Inverter: SolarEdge (1) SE7600H-US w/ x20 P400 DC Optimizers x20 $209.57 $4,191.40
Solar Racking: SunModo Sunturf Ground Mount x20 $163.22 $3,264.30
Balance of System: wire, conduit, junction boxes, breakers, etc $1,586.69 $1,586.69
Trench, Drill, Concrete, Electrical and Racking Labor $4,298.76 $4,298.76
Design, Engineering, Permits, Operating Overhead $4,727.45 $4,727.45
$23,450


My roof mount 7.02 kW roof mount:
$17,306 Total cost = $2.47/W
7,101 kWh annual production
$852 annual value of solar production @12 cents
Oregon incentive -$1,404
Energy Trust -$2,106
Out of pocket $13,796
Federal tax credit -$3,587 @26%
Net $10,209 $1.45w
12 year payback from electricity alone assuming no inflation

Modules: Hanwha Q.cell 390-watt mono split cell x18 $269.07 $4,843.20 = $1.44w
Inverter: SolarEdge SE6,000H-US (18) P400 DC Optimizers x18 $209.57 $3,772.28
Solar Racking: Ironridge comp roof, Mill x18 $67.36 $1,212.46
Balance of System: wire, conduit, junction boxes, breakers, etc 1$1,152.14 $1,152.14
Electrical and Racking Labor $3,303.25 $3,303.25
Design, Engineering, Permits, Operating Overhead $3,022.66 $3,022.66
$17,306.00

I should have a quote from company 2 tomorrow.

[redpoint5]

Company 2 pricing is higher because they exclusively use SunPower products and use micros instead of optimizers:

Parents 7.848 kW ground mount:
$30,810 total cost = $3.93/W
10,270 kWh annual production
$1,232 annual value of solar production @ 12 cents
Oregon incentive -$5,000
Energy Trust -$9,000
Out of pocket $16,810
Federal tax credit -$4,371 @ 26%
Net $12,439 $1.58 watt
10 year payback from electricity alone assuming no inflation

SunPower SPR-E20-327 x24
String inverter Fronius Primo 5kw

My roof mount 5.559 kW roof mount:
$18,890 Total cost = $3.40/W
6,825 kWh annual production
$819 annual value of solar production @12 cents (4% less than above)
Oregon incentive -$1,112
Energy Trust -$1,668
Out of pocket $16,111
Federal tax credit -$4,189 @26%
Net $11,922 $2.14/w
14.5 year payback from electricity alone assuming no inflation

SunPower SPR-E20-327 x17
Sunpower Micro-inverter SPE-E20-327 x17

The very tempting yet dangerous sounding option is Tesla. Here's the online quote:

My roof mount 7.6 kW TESLA roof mount:
$17,000 Total cost = $2.24/W
? kWh annual production
At least $962 annual value of solar production (100% of my current usage)
Oregon incentive -$1,520
Energy Trust -$2,280
Out of pocket $13,200
Federal tax credit -3,432$ @26%
Net $9,768 $1.29/w
10 year payback from electricity alone assuming no inflation

Tesla doesn't list components used, and many people online say they use string inverters unless there is enough shading to justify optimizers, and it's unclear if that affects pricing. The real downside is the consistently scathing reviews left by customers even until recently. Difficulties getting attention of customer service, and waiting months to get problems fixed. Some reports of roof leaks following installation. It's unclear if they put in the effort to get the utility and state credits because that isn't quoted in the price. Probably not worth the risk to save a few bucks.

Tesla reviews:
https://www.solarreviews.com/manufacturers/tesla

EDIT: 2 more adjusted quotes from Company 2:

Parents 6.32 kW ground mount:
$24,740 total cost = $3.91/W
10,042 kWh annual production
$1,205 annual value of solar production @ 12 cents
Oregon incentive -$5,000
Energy Trust -$9,000
Out of pocket $10,740
Federal tax credit -$2,792 @ 26%
Net $7,948 $1.26 watt
6.6 year payback from electricity alone assuming no inflation

SunPower SPR-P19-395 x16
String inverter Fronius Primo 5kw

My roof mount 5.695 kW roof mount:
$18,960 Total cost = $3.33/W
7,065 kWh annual production
$847 annual value of solar production @12 cents
Oregon incentive -$1,139
Energy Trust -$1,709
Out of pocket $16,111
Federal tax credit -$4,189 @26%
Net $11,923 $2.09/w
14 year payback from electricity alone assuming no inflation

[hayden55]

I'll definitely add that if you want decent service go local. If you have the option for similar items and one is local... Local will be much less of a headache.

[redpoint5]

I put in a request for bids from 2 more companies.

I'm leaning toward company 1 for my parents at the moment, and company 2 (2nd proposal) for my house.

We'll see what the next 2 bids look like. I expect to have a decision and enter into contract by this time next week.

[redneck]

.

I would avoid Tesla.


https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2020/...nership-frays/


Production problems since day one. It’s a shame that Elon didn’t put the effort into Solar Roof, like he did for Space X.




>

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by redneck

.

I would avoid Tesla.


https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2020/...nership-frays/


Production problems since day one. It’s a shame that Elon didn’t put the effort into Solar Roof, like he did for Space X.
>

Yeah, Tesla solar is dead to me. I'm getting quotes that rival what Tesla can do (or better with subsidies), and they are local, and they list the products they intend to use.

As an aside, I was speaking with a solar installer and he told me his drone broke down and he is backlogged on aerial photos for his recently completed projects. I agreed to do that work for him at $40/job. I'm going to get paid to drone! My wife can't give me so much grief about buying it now. I'll take her out to dinner.